Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2012, 10:18 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Question

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


Hey everyone. I recently bought a house and the only heating system installed is electric baseboard heat. This summer has been quite a scorcher and with only 1-8000 btu air conditioner the main living area has stayed "comfortable" with help from a few fans. I am researching about getting a Heat pump, that does air conditioning also, installed. I have read about ductless, and ducted, i have read that the ductless are more efficient. the ducted seem to be "cheaper" but without duct already installed it seems to be the opposite. i have already gotten 2 estimates but cant decide on what type of system to install. i don't have a problem with ductless units hanging on the wall, My girlfriend only prefers them if they are in a less conspicuous location. as for floor and wall registers/returns, the one estimate i received, the installer said the 2 or 3 returns on the main living area were going to be 36x14, or 24x14.. and the floor registers were going to be 12x12.. my girlfriend is a very picky person when it comes to the ascetics of our home. she doesn't want large returns and registers all over the place, plus she is worried that they will ruin the hardwood floor when cutting for the registers.

so my main question is does anyone have a ductless system that could post pictures of how they "camouflage" the units hanging on the wall.. or should i just bite the bullet and have a ducted system installed and search for a HVAC contractor that might install slightly smaller registers and vents in out of the way locations?

Mattme123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 10:45 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


http://www.lg-dfs.com/mini-split-art-cool.aspx

If you do go with ducted, then please do yourself a favor and let your contractor size the ducts and vents to fit the system, and not your girlfriend's whims. While there is some leeway in the location of ducts and such, you (and your gf) are going to have to understand that duct placement is not really a matter of "what looks best" but rather a matter of where it needs to go.

12x12 is quite large for supply registers. Most of the ones we see are 4x10, 4x12 etc ... I'd be curious as to why they need to install a 12x12 supply register.

scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 10:54 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


As far as us choosing supply and return location and size, we were going to leave that up to the professional. I just though the sizes he was explaining was a wee bit overkill. That was just 1 persons opinion too. I have had another contractor come out and he said 4x12 or 4x10 would be fine. The 12x12 registers were going about 1 foot out from the center of each window and that just didn't seem right. I am leaning more towards the mini-split ductless for heat and air conditioning for the fact that it is more efficient over time. She is still completely undecided when it comes to efficiency and looks on what system to install.
Mattme123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 05:18 PM   #4
Member
 
biggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,630
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


plan on loosing a closet with the duct run up or down from the air handler.check out those ductless there are different options on the air handler end besides the wall mounted unit they have heat pumps that can handler 3 air handlers heating or cooling
biggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 01:39 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


There are pros and cons to both systems that you are considering. You have to determine which is best for you.

Mini splits heat pumps are the most efficient units available. Make sure you check the SEER number. There are alot of units out there at a good price with SEERs of 13. I would look for one in the 20's for the best efficiency.
As you mentioned the down side is the unit on the wall that can't be moved. The LG Artcool line makes this issue better. There are also overhead units that are available if you have the access. Most systems are very quiet.

Central ducted units eliminate the unit on the wall, but have the higher cost of installation and are not as efficient. They are convienent as they move the air to various areas with better air flow.

I have both systems. Mini split in an addition and Central system that came with the house. The mini-split helps to take the load off of the main system and many times cools our main living area so that the central system runs on only the hottest days. My mini split hangs above a closet facing opposite our Family Room. You would only know it is there if you walked around the corner.

You and your GF will have to decide what works for her.

rls

Last edited by Rleeshfr; 08-09-2012 at 01:43 AM.
Rleeshfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 03:20 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


The other thing to remember with mini-splits is that you always have a large air handler hanging on the wall. Even if you get the LG art cool series you still have ... a large air handler hanging on the wall. Some people are okay with that. Others don't find them overly attractive.

See if you can find someone who has a mini-split and go take a look at them installed in a home. This would give you a better idea of what you might end up with.

IMO ducted central systems are a better fit for most single family residences, but then that's just me.
scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 11:50 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


Alright I'll chime in here with my research. I am redoing a house which has a ground water well, and I am going to want to use it for heat source/sink. So looking at a ClimateMaster TMW 36,000 BTU/h water-to-water heat pump with hot water generator. Then I will attach chilled water fan coils in every room.

There is a company called "Multi-Aqua" who market such systems with the usual water-to-air heat pump. However I am not convinced about their fan coils, it seems they are extremely expensive. Looks like just one of them costs $900, while you can get a Fujitsu mini-split room unit for $500. So, I am going to go out even more unusual. This stuff is so common in Asia and South America, but not yet here in the US. So, I might purchase it from India or China where I have found such units for a price of $200. Now we are talking! At that price, I don't even care about warranty or different sizes, I just buy a bulk of 10 or more and put one in each small room and larger rooms get more than one if need be.

How it works, in my understanding is this: the central heat pump has 3 circuits (6 connectors): source ground water, chilled water, and hot water.

Ground water: at 1-2 gallon/min per ton of capacity. Remember 1 ton = 12,000 BTU/h. So my 36,000 BTU/h would take 6 gallon/min. I know I need to check the water for pH, ions, particles, and hope that I will be in range not to require a secondary heat exchanger.


Hot water: 120-150 deg. F. This will go into the underfloor radiant heat for the cold days, and it will also feed the warm water pipes, with additional thankless natural gas fired heat booster(s). The one open engineering question I have with that is that I have heard that water at that luke-warm temperature is especially prone to cause corrosion in the system. Also, legionella may be bread if the tank is never heated higher than 180 deg. Any ideas?

Chilled water: 45 deg. F. I think there needs to be a tank also to store that water. I don't know if that needs to be a closed system actually, or if it isn't better to just use the ground water for it, it's not going to add that much more to the water use, but it may reduce energy consumption as it goes in with its 50-60 deg. F, rather than the 70 or 80 at which it might come out from those coils? Not sure. Anyway, the chilled water will be running in a circuit through the house and the fan coils attach to that.

Fan coils: they have a remote control. They are connected to the chilled water circuit by a solenoid valve. When the fan coil thermostat starts the unit, the valve gets some 24 V signal and opens. Now the chilled water runs through the unit cooling and condensing the air. The condensed water needs to be run off (may be with a hose to the outside) and the then warmer water that flowed through the coil also needs to run off. I saw schematics in which that water would go back into that chilled circuit ... doesn't make sense to me. So, I suppose the water will go into a return circuit. And then, as I said, might be re-chilled or just dumped along with the geothermal pump water.

The warm water that comes out will go into an artificial creek and pond in my backyard wood, and I might even use it to exchange water in my pool. Let's see how it goes.

I think my super-modern system will be extremely competitively priced too. Because as it stands, the only expensive appliance is that central heat pump. If my Chinese or Indian coil units work out at $200 it's a veritable joke.

I wish though that I'd be 2 years or so later, because just now they are coming out with true variable speed heat pumps. Remember how they say you need to size your system just right? Well, that is b/s IMO, because you can't size the system so that it will be exactly right all the time, you need to size it for maximum load, which is too much for average load. And with 2-speed technology which some have, you still won't hit the sweet-spot. So, true variable speed can do it. Without that, I suppose I need to work with tanks to allow the heat pump to cycle enough time to store hot and chilled water, and then go off again without cycling too often.

Last edited by Guber; 08-09-2012 at 12:38 PM.
Guber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 03:43 AM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Smile

Choosing a new heating/cooling system


Here are some of the photographs of mini split units: http://splitunit.org/split_unit_air_conditioners.html. Perhaps it will help to know that you can install them either on the walls, or on the ceiling.

It might be difficult to "hide" the units and at the same time make them efficient in bringing in the cool air. Let us know what ideas you and your wife come up with.

homecomfort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A strange one - polybutelene piping used in radiant heating system GordCooper Plumbing 4 03-13-2012 10:09 PM
New Heating & AC system takes long time to warm up home poston8 HVAC 10 11-10-2010 03:26 PM
I Need a New Boiler. What do i need to know New Boiler Co Plumbing 0 10-23-2010 06:03 PM
beware humidity system? Emaderton3 HVAC 5 02-10-2010 11:52 PM
Which heatings system should I go with? keano016 HVAC 5 12-01-2009 02:53 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.