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Old 10-09-2008, 06:08 PM   #1
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cheating on that WAKE UP morning heat


the way oil/gas prices are expected to go this winter a little cheating on that morning time on heat will help that bill.EXAMLPE: if it is just you and your wife and you wake up at 5AM and out by 6AM try this.set the morning /(wake) up for 68 F at 4:45AM and (leave) setting at 50F at 5:15AM,if you have an electronic stat it will anticpate that at 4:45AM you want it a 68F and it will be that till it sees the 5:15AM setting.it all depends on whats going on outside also 40F...30F no big deal 10F wind blowing adjust the times on that 5AM-6AM getting ready time...keep the 4:45AM on add 15 minutes to go to 5:30AM leave temp.it is easier to adjust the times on/off then changing temps up and down.night settings (sleep)can go to 60F 65F if there are no kids within.

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Old 10-09-2008, 06:35 PM   #2
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If someone just made a thermostat that is programable...your idea might just work...

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Old 10-09-2008, 07:34 PM   #3
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I have mine set for 66 in the morning and then it goes to 64 during the day and drops to 50 at night. If we get cold we put on a sweater or pull up a blanket.

We are just used to the cold.

Acclimating to the colder temperatures took a while but now we are used to it and save about 20% a month on our heating bill.

Today it is 56 outside and I am wearing shorts and a T shirt.
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Old 10-09-2008, 08:48 PM   #4
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jerry -

It does work and there are thermostats made that can be programmed if you just bother to learn how things work.

I don't bother too much with the anticipation of temperature and an outside probe because when we need heat, it is predictable and normal. An efficient variable speed fan on 24x7 is necessary for us to get the comfort on all levels. It makes little difference whether the outside teperature is -20F, zero or +20F since no probe measures the wind. When it is really cold, we generally have little wind so the house warms up about the same. In my masonry lake home, I never used a programmable setback because of the thermal mass benefits since I only used the home on week-ends in the winter. Annually, it only cost me less than $100 per year to maintain a constant 65 degrees 24x7 as oppopsed to turning down to 40F during the week and walking into a cold place on Friday that took 2 days to warm up.

At home, we set at 58F for evenings and raise to more livable levels during the day of the week. Much healthier and fewer colds and other problems.

A good furance with a variable speed fan is really a great investment and permits the thermostatic control that is possible with a good thermostat.
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:25 PM   #5
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jerry -

It does work and there are thermostats made that can be programmed if you just bother to learn how things work.

I don't bother too much with the anticipation of temperature and an outside probe because when we need heat, it is predictable and normal. An efficient variable speed fan on 24x7 is necessary for us to get the comfort on all levels. It makes little difference whether the outside teperature is -20F, zero or +20F since no probe measures the wind. When it is really cold, we generally have little wind so the house warms up about the same. In my masonry lake home, I never used a programmable setback because of the thermal mass benefits since I only used the home on week-ends in the winter. Annually, it only cost me less than $100 per year to maintain a constant 65 degrees 24x7 as oppopsed to turning down to 40F during the week and walking into a cold place on Friday that took 2 days to warm up.

At home, we set at 58F for evenings and raise to more livable levels during the day of the week. Much healthier and fewer colds and other problems.

A good furance with a variable speed fan is really a great investment and permits the thermostatic control that is possible with a good thermostat.

I think he was being a smart ass about it since programmable thermostats have been out for awhile now ... I only wish something could be done for my house but a boiler does not have as quick a recovery time as forced air so all our t-stats can do is start up a couple hours before we wake and drop down a bit when we leave and restart before we return...but on the weekends the heat is nice and even...
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:43 PM   #6
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Most programmable stats have an ENERGY RECOVERY program. Set your stat 68 for wake up, the stat "learns" how long it takes to run the furnace to get there.

To set it back to 50* is a gas waster. It requires more NG to recover from a 10* temp difference to your "at home" temp set than your set back temp saves.
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:49 PM   #7
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To set it back to 50* is a gas waster. It requires more NG to recover from a 10* temp difference to your "at home" temp set than your set back temp saves.
Very true in nearly all cases.
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:29 AM   #8
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I think he was being a smart ass about it since programmable thermostats have been out for awhile now ... I only wish something could be done for my house but a boiler does not have as quick a recovery time as forced air so all our t-stats can do is start up a couple hours before we wake and drop down a bit when we leave and restart before we return...but on the weekends the heat is nice and even...
At least someone picked up on it. I too have a boiler that takes a while to get to operating temp in the morning. I think I have it set to come on 1.5 hours before we get up in the morning.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:00 AM   #9
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At least someone picked up on it. I too have a boiler that takes a while to get to operating temp in the morning. I think I have it set to come on 1.5 hours before we get up in the morning.

With a stat tha applie the ENERY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM, you could probably cut that time significantly and save gas.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:38 AM   #10
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With a stat tha applie the ENERY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM, you could probably cut that time significantly and save gas.
How could it cut down the time it takes to get to the set temp? It's an oiler boiler if it makes a difference. I have already installed a Beckett Heatmanager which seemed to help with the control of the burn cycles.
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:35 PM   #11
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At least someone picked up on it. I too have a boiler that takes a while to get to operating temp in the morning. I think I have it set to come on 1.5 hours before we get up in the morning.
Carrier makes a tstat with a feature called Smart Recovery. Heating operation starts before a scheduled temperature change to gradually achieve the setpoint. For example on the TP-PRH/NRH Performance Series Thermidistat you can tell it to start recovering 60 or 90 minutes before setpoint.

I wonder if this might help the boiler folks. Of course just like with an HP you don't want to set back too far since its all about BTUs over time.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:17 PM   #12
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How could it cut down the time it takes to get to the set temp? It's an oiler boiler if it makes a difference. I have already installed a Beckett Heatmanager which seemed to help with the control of the burn cycles.
I am speaking only for a warm air system. I don't know about hydronics.

But the point is it times how long it needs to get up to the "wake up" temp. And it only runs as long as it needs to based on previous cycles.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:25 PM   #13
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Carrier makes a tstat with a feature called Smart Recovery. Heating operation starts before a scheduled temperature change to gradually achieve the setpoint. For example on the TP-PRH/NRH Performance Series Thermidistat you can tell it to start recovering 60 or 90 minutes before setpoint.

I wonder if this might help the boiler folks. Of course just like with an HP you don't want to set back too far since its all about BTUs over time.
I don't think it would help in my case. The boiler is either on or off. There is no way to change the amount time it would take to go from the overnight temp to the daytime temp (besided maybe changing the high limit temperature cutoff).
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:36 PM   #14
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We tried a programmable thermostat a few years back for a few months with only a 5 difference from being away and sleeping to an awake temperature and our gas bill was reduced by ~20%. However, during that time I was forced to take 2 sick days.

My old employer would by them back and in my case the loss of 2 days wages was more than the ~20% savings.

As seen on TV set it and forget it is my motto.
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:00 PM   #15
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cheating on that WAKE UP morning heat


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I don't think it would help in my case. The boiler is either on or off. There is no way to change the amount time it would take to go from the overnight temp to the daytime temp (besided maybe changing the high limit temperature cutoff).

On a warm air system the medium for heating the home is convection from buring fuel in heat ex ch which is directly controlled by a t'stat.

On a boiler the water is kept warm at all times by an aquastat. In the this scenario the stat turn on a circulate to circulate the hot water to the radiator or convector.

OK like I said Iam not a hydronics guy but this seems to be the gist of why a programmable won't work.

I am relaying on a thirty year old trade school hydronics class, so if any boiler guys can add or correct my statement then please do.

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