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Old 12-23-2008, 02:23 AM   #1
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Charging R-410a


How do I top off, check or add a little R-410a? I have just installed a 3 ton trane unit and need to check the charge and top off the pre charged system. I have the 410 guages, quick charge and freion. I just need to know whats the proper way to know how to much freion to add. The unit was precharge for around 15ft of lineset, I have around 22ft of line set, so I'm sure I'm probley short a bit. Thanks JIM

Part# 4TTX6036B1000A
Coil# 4TXCB036BC3HCA

It is a TXV unit.

Heres the manuals:
http://www.trane.com/webcache/un/spl...2_03012005.pdf

http://www.trane.com/webcache/un/spl...3_09012008.pdf

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Old 12-23-2008, 05:29 AM   #2
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Charging R-410a


Install manual will tell you how much to add per foot of additional line set.

Add it as liquid only.

Hope you got low loss fittings.

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Old 12-23-2008, 10:09 AM   #3
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Charging R-410a


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Install manual will tell you how much to add per foot of additional line set.

Add it as liquid only.

Hope you got low loss fittings.
Low loss fittings? Please explain.

I'll look threw the manual, but how if you dont know how many extra feet how can you tell by looking at the pressure where the charge is ideal? Thanks JIM
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Old 12-23-2008, 04:05 PM   #4
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Charging R-410a


They are fittings that have a seal/valve that provents the refrigerant in the hose from coming out.
Without it, removing the liquid line hose, puts a good amount of liquid out near or on your hand, and will tend to give frost bite.
Could be mold to severe.

Youy said you have 22'.

Without knowing your would have to use subcooling and super heat to know correct charge, and if its operating correctly.

Pressure tells you very little.
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:02 PM   #5
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Charging R-410a


Thanks again for the info. I have seen subcool and superheat charts, I just have never used them before. I don't really know how they work. Is there any online or are they all charts you have buy? I'll only be doing it once.

I have been think'n about trying to find someone that wants to take my set of guages and left over 410a to charge my system properly. I have a 25lb of R-410a unopened that I'm probley going to use very little of and then throw it in my garage only to probley never use it again. I also have the guages, that I will probley never use again. (asumming I do everything right the first time).

Anyone have any good links on how to charge or use the subcool and superheat charts? Thanks JIM
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:35 PM   #6
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Charging R-410a


There are lots of sites that have refrigerant P/T charts that you can down load.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:39 PM   #7
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Charging R-410a


Okay, since this is a TXV system you must check charge by subcooling method and not superheat. It's really not to difficult to do. First you hook up your gauges. let system run for 15 minutes. If your gauges also show different refrigerants you won't even need a pressure/temp chart. Just follow needle down from pressure reading until you get to 410A, and that'll be your saturation temp. (the point at which the freon is completely saturated... drop temp anymore and it's a liquid...add temp and it's a vapor). If your gauge doesn't show the different refrigerants you can download a pressure/temp chart off internet. Just record your high side pressure, and match it to 410A on the chart and thats your saturation temp. Okay you will find the required amount of subcooling on your maufacturing plate of unit or in users manual. Now we need a decent thermometer, preferably digital, and put it on the line coming out of the condenser at the bottom. This is the point that all freon should now be a liquid. In order to ensure this we "subcool" the freon an extra 10-15 degrees. Whatever your manufacturer calls for. As you add freon this temp is gonna drop. Keep an eye on the pressure too. Match them up until you get the desired amount of subcooling. Only add a little at a time, and wait 15 minutes beween adding more to allow unit to equalize. Good luck!!!
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:20 PM   #8
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Charging R-410a


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Originally Posted by jsherrill77 View Post
Okay, since this is a TXV system you must check charge by subcooling method and not superheat. It's really not to difficult to do. First you hook up your gauges. let system run for 15 minutes. If your gauges also show different refrigerants you won't even need a pressure/temp chart. Just follow needle down from pressure reading until you get to 410A, and that'll be your saturation temp. (the point at which the freon is completely saturated... drop temp anymore and it's a liquid...add temp and it's a vapor). If your gauge doesn't show the different refrigerants you can download a pressure/temp chart off internet. Just record your high side pressure, and match it to 410A on the chart and thats your saturation temp. Okay you will find the required amount of subcooling on your maufacturing plate of unit or in users manual. Now we need a decent thermometer, preferably digital, and put it on the line coming out of the condenser at the bottom. This is the point that all freon should now be a liquid. In order to ensure this we "subcool" the freon an extra 10-15 degrees. Whatever your manufacturer calls for. As you add freon this temp is gonna drop. Keep an eye on the pressure too. Match them up until you get the desired amount of subcooling. Only add a little at a time, and wait 15 minutes beween adding more to allow unit to equalize. Good luck!!!
Dude, you for got the most important factor: SUFFICIENT AIFLOW.

if he's pushing more or less air than he needs the reading won't mean diddly squat. And the wet bulb air entering and out side ambient are going to play into this big time.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:54 PM   #9
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Charging R-410a


Ok guys, so I found what i was looking for, inside the unit behind the door in an envlope. I was reading the install instructions but couldnt find what I was looking for. Now I found it. So it tells me it charged for 15ft. for 20ft add 3 0z. and for 30ft add 9 oz. I can do the math for for 22ft. It also shows me some pressure curves and refrigerant charing curves for the first and 2nd stages.

Also my guages do have the diff frieons on them, 404, 410 and 22. Different colors each and inside the normal pressure readings. Thanks for your guys help. One more quick question off the charging topic.

The outside unit has 3 wires im hooking up. Y1, Y2 AND B. Now B is the common right? My 2 stage furnace has a B on it, but my W8835 zoning panel that connects to the furnace doesnt have a B. In the manual It shows the B connected to all 3, the thermostate, furnace and compressor. Im running 3 wire IAQ visionpro stats to the Honeywell zoning panel, then zoning panel to heater then off to the compressor.
http://customer.honeywell.com/techli.../68-0258ES.pdf page 5 and 6 shows wiring for the zone panel.

http://www.butcherdistributors.com/I...rior/4ttx6.pdf Page 5 on this shows the ideal connetion. This is the condesning unit install guide. Everythign looks fine except the B. Im also running the heater now no problems and I dont have the B hooked up on the heater.

Last edited by integlikewhoa; 12-23-2008 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:23 PM   #10
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Charging R-410a


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Okay, since this is a TXV system you must check charge by subcooling method and not superheat.
You should always check superheat.
Even with a TXV.
Other wise, you don't know if the TXV is feeding the evap coil enough refrigerant.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:29 PM   #11
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Charging R-410a


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You should always check superheat.
Even with a TXV.
Other wise, you don't know if the TXV is feeding the evap coil enough refrigerant.
Will do thanks. What u think on the wiring?
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:32 PM   #12
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Charging R-410a


You don't need B from the furnace to be connected to the zone panel, because the zone panel gets its power from the external transformer.

The outdoor unit will need its B hooked to the furnace though.

Are you going to use the IAQ's cool to dehumidify ability.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:38 PM   #13
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Charging R-410a


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You don't need B from the furnace to be connected to the zone panel, because the zone panel gets its power from the external transformer.

The outdoor unit will need its B hooked to the furnace though.

Are you going to use the IAQ's cool to dehumidify ability.
Yupppp
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:50 PM   #14
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Charging R-410a


Ok.
The 16i, has a draw back when using that feature, no matter what stat you use.

You can't slow the blower in first stage like you can other brands, or models.

When using cool to dehumidify on your 16i, you must enable Comfort r. So its keeps the blower as slow as possible.

You can also, wire the W8835 Y2 to the outdoor units Y2, but skip the BK terminal.
Then jumper R of the panel to the dhum1 teminal, and run a wire from dhum2 to the furnaces BK terminal.
And set the panel that it opens the dhum teminals on a call to dehumidify.

That way, if the humidity rises while cooling in second stage. It will be able to slow the blower down.

Comfort r, only has effect for the first 10 minutes.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:07 AM   #15
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Charging R-410a


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You can also, wire the W8835 Y2 to the outdoor units Y2, but skip the BK terminal.
Then jumper R of the panel to the dhum1 teminal, and run a wire from dhum2 to the furnaces BK terminal.
And set the panel that it opens the dhum teminals on a call to dehumidify.
Whats the down side to this way? I have done a similer setup on the freash air vent. Is everything else the same? the furnace has a factory jumper between r and bk. those still ahve to be cut and everything?
Also it ask for a jumper on the furance to be installed from R to O. Is all that the same?

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