Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-19-2011, 10:47 AM   #31
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3
Share |
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Way to make your argument with hyperbole and/or outright lies and ad hominem attacks. I guess that's all you have to support your views, since they have no actual merit in most cases.

-I never said there were NO sealed combustion cast iron units. I said there weren't MANY. if you go sealed combustion, good for you, you're still missing modulation and condensation benefits, but you're ahead of your atmospheric counterparts. Up here, most people doing cast iron are doing fuel oil, and there are almost no sealed combustion units for cast iron oil. Gas may have more, but I don't follow that too much, since if you're using gas, and cast iron, you're an idiot. You might have to forgive my attitude there, but the basics is this: the amount of education you need on this topic is huge. I do not have the time to do it for you. Brookhaven has several studies on various aspects of this discussion as well as manyothers. I can only say I have been involved with many changes from cast iron to mod/con and the fact is, the mod/cons save money. Lots. All the research I've read confirms it, from heating efficiency through to summertime DHW production efficiency, with, without post purge, can be as low as in the 30's on cast iron. even if it only saves 10%, that will cost justify a mod/con AND ITS REPLACEMENT in a decent amount of time on most homes. If your load is low enough that my statement is not true, then you probably dont want a boiler at all, and should be looking at water heaters. A tank water heater in a heating applications runs around 75% efficient without even trying to get to good efficiency. I can run that WITH NO BUFFER TANK, no electronics, and buy two of THEM for every cast iron you want to throw at it. Sealed combustion, too. All you have to do is run 140 water temps or less. so why use cast iron again?

-You're also wrong about my stance on buffer tanks. I design modcons with buffer tanks routinely, when warranted by the zoning requirements of a particular home and the midmod of the boiler I'm using (we design around pretty much all of them). Buffer tanks are more problematic with cast iron though because of the potential for sustained low return temps, so they must be handled with care there or you will REDUCE your boiler's lifespan. typically I have them on a secondary loop with a mixing valve doing boiler protection, so the boiler heats up first, then heats the tank. Then again, most of my systems are low temp and using a mixing valve, since my company designs radiant systems primarily.

Of course, the cast iron itself is a significant mass as well, and so a basic outdoor reset control with DHW/post purge can greatly improve its lifespan and efficiency, buffer or not, though the buffer helps by reducing cycle count.

-Trying to evaluate your insulation's effectiveness on the basis of surface temperature is an incredible fallacy and is in fact the hallmark of the ignorant or the shyster: if you actually understood heat transfer, you'd know that. All that means is you are losing heat less effectively than the concrete can pick up heat. yahoo.

http://www.healthyheating.com/Page%2...o_bldg_sys.htm is a page full of research on a variety of tarp products and how they are all garbage. the "crack" argument is similarly fundamentally flawed because R value is about average over area. the cracks don't take up that much area, and even taking that into account some small amount of thermal bridging, the R of the foam is VASTLY, not "somewhat" superior to that of insultarp. and all research shows that the R value holds over time, it's been tested in 15 year bury tests for EPS and XPS foam... over that time, they are basically the same.

Your basement is warm because your hulking masses of hot metal, tanks, and associated piping are heating it. Nice radiators you have there, cast iron I hear?

the "anecdotes" in insultarps favor are just BS, plain and simple. I have anecdotes about high fuel bills and flowers growing around slabs using the product as well. How about we skip the anecdotes and look the plain fact, an R10 will beat an R2+ every day of the week. and frankly, I think R10 might be low for a lot of people these days. check out the passivehouse calculator sometime for heat transfer considerations to the ground. we ignore all of them in normal calc/design methodology, but they are very significant for many people.

-Nothing about modcons makes my design service more attractive. We designed systems long before there were mod cons in common usage and we are designing many kinds of systems not modcon related, but hey, nice try. The buffer/cast iron idea is very good.... that's why the Vitola boiler is the best cast iron boiler on the market by efficiency by a wide margin (and not just in AFUE). But it makes design MORE important so you don't kill your own boiler.

-I didn't install my boiler. it was a basic high temp oil weil mclain cast iron unit with internal DHW coil, in the house when I bought it. Made no serious modifications to it, and the block started leaking after 12 years. yes, it was cast iron. the cworkmanship not as good as it was in the 60's apparently. Modern cast iron I would not automatically assume will outlast mod/cons. we'll see though. My mod/con replacement (Ultra, not TT, though I do prefer the TT these days, stainless steel and all) is 5 years old and running just fine with no apparent corrosion or problems, and I have literally hundreds of clients with boilers at least as old also doing just fine. all the doom and gloom about 5 year failure rates appears to be so much FUD. Don't see any reason why it should go anytime soon, either. I get it cleaned every two years and the combustion test comes back with numbers that would make the cast iron it replaced blush, every time. Baseboard system, too, I might add. I only get out of condensing range for a few weeks a year. baseboard was installed when I moved in as well, with no modifications. 150 max temp works fine, on reset.

-Nearly every gas company in existence is familiar with modcons these days. you can get bad ones. If you want to hire cheap hacks to put your boiler in, feel free. but that's not the boiler's fault. Maybe you need to let your fingers do the walking a bit further.

-If you're comparing material only, you can get two cast iron boilers for one mod con. but not installed cost, which is what EVERYONE should be talking about, because installing your own boiler is a bad idea. Ronco's pocket combustion analyzer notwithstanding, even pros get that wrong sometimes. even more reason to get a good one. I LOVE DIY, and work with DIY'ers every day. but the boiler is a bad place for DIY for a lot of reasons covered ad nauseum through the years, including warranty, death, service, and inefficiency. There are ways to do it safely. but they all involve a pro with a combustion analyzer and a well understood supply chain for warranty coverage.



I don't call people names in forums very often, but you, sir, are a troll, and a boor. Luckily most people around here appear able to see that. I only hope that you fail to bamboozle anyone else into following you down the path of ancient inefficiency. In today's day and age, it is an expensive mistake to make for most people.

NRT.Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 03:04 PM   #32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


I am going to quit this. First, it is you guys that called me names, and second, it is hard to have a conversation with people with reading problems. Master of Cold, if you go read what I said about witches, I WAS THE WITCH, AND YOU GUYS WERE THROWING STONES AT ME.

Rob, with regard to your second paragraph, the point was not about how many SC boilers were out there, but your prior post launched into me when I mentioned getting a sealed combustion cast iron boiler, and you went off on a tangent about cast iron boilers burning oxygen from inside the heating envelope using 10-15% more gas. Talk about running awry.

Since you are so much in love with modcons and Brookhaven, you should know they list modcons number two in REAL fuel efficiency at 83%. They list the oil-fired, steel boiler with purge control at over 85%. Brookhaven also states that the average home uses $3,500 per year in oil, which seems high to me.

Third paragraph. Taco sells a 2-way iSeries mixing valve that is based on Setpoint. With a buffer tank, one can easily do a system bypass or a boiler bypass. You can set the temp to whatever you want. Glad to hear you use buffer tanks.

In paragraph 5, where the heck did you get the idea that I was analyzing insulation? Cast iron radiators ability to put out heat is measured in flow, in water temperature, and SQUARE FEET OF RADIATION. I was comparing the output of the radiator in our guest bedroom to that of an uninsulated buffer tank. This is frustrating.

And talk about lies, you state that the R-rating for Insul-Tarp is 2. Is this a lie, intentional mis-imformation, or is this the accuracy when you discuss boiler efficiency? And foam board can go up to R-7 per inch, but for some reason Insul-Tarp performs better than its government mandated method of calculating R-values, and it has tons of advantages beyond that. My basement has 800 square feet that only has a 50 gallon hot water heater, and distribution piping, nothing else. The boiler is in a separate room of 400 square feet with nothing else, and they are separated by 10" of concrete foundation. It was 40 f this morning, and the room with the water heater was 69.8 f, as was the floor. Find a floor, turn the heat off, and we will compare floor temps to outside temps. I walk 7 stairs to reach first floor level in the back and 4 steps up by the front door. A lot of exposed walls and very little heat.

That Weil boiler you had did have problems unlike their other boilers. If I remember correctly, it has two primary cast iron blocks of sections and there must have been a design problem. They still sell the unit, so they probably worked out a solution, but I never looked at the boiler as being acceptable. If you are running 150 f in your baseboard, your house is perhaps like mine in that the total radiation exceeds your heat loss by 40%. It also has a modcon. It has baseboard. This also raises the question. I have repeatedly and innocently and kindly asked people in the business, like you, to tell me what your natural gas bill is every year, and compare it and your house to mine. It is like you are all afraid to substantiate what you sell. I will state that my house has 2,350 square feet, 60% of the walls are uninsulated, the attic is probably R-38 or so, it has almost 600 sf of glass (this is about 40% of my heat loss), and the basement is 2-3 feet out of the ground. I have a 35 year old Weil Mclain PCG-4 gas-fired boiler with the following ratings 105/84/73, and it keeps up down to zero or a little more. Last year, I paid $1,800 or so on my natural gas bill. I have made the following improvements that will change the number of therms used going forward. Last spring, I installed a new 50 gallon, natural draft, gas hot heater. May seem uneventful, but it replaced a $140 Home Depot, 30 year old, 40 gallon hot water heater that I pulled from one of my apartments and installed in this home over 12 years ago. It has been percolating so bad for the last several years, it sounded like I was running an under-water, pop corn popper in the basement. I hate to think about how many therms it blasted through each year. The second thing I did was clean the castings in my boiler and resealed the flue. This likely has never been done based on the look of the old sealant. I also adjusted the burner which had been set to such a high flame level, it was roaring. My manual states that the light blue flame should be 1/4 to 1/2 inch. It had been at 1.5 inches plus. Talk about waste. At this point, I am assuming that my gas bill will drop from the $1,800. I have no buffer tank, my two baseboard zones only have a few gallons of water each, and the boiler cycles too much because of this. I have one pump on the return, and absolutely no controls on the system other than 3 Taco 570 zone valves. Other than having 3 zones instead of 1, this is as primitive as it gets, and Chicago has a lower outdoor design temperature listed than your are, I believe.

So, I suggest that we each post our gas bills when they come out each month and we can compare houses and therms going forward.

Here is my boiler. Ain't she a honey?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BOILER PIC.pdf (36.4 KB, 63 views)
rickmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 03:18 PM   #33
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,416
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Made this its own thread, so as not to keep on hi jacking/derailing the other thread.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 03:30 PM   #34
I have gas!
 
Clutchcargo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,765
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


I think this is a really good debate and there's lots of info here for both sides. Lets not let this get out of control with name calling as that will surely get it locked.
__________________
I tear things down and build them up.
Clutchcargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 05:32 PM   #35
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


By the way, here is a chart of the number of Btus radiated per square foot of radiator surface area at different temperatures.

It was published courtesy of www.comfort-calc.net.
Attached Thumbnails
Cast iron vs mod/cons-imageg30-1-.jpg  
rickmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 07:18 PM   #36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


RE: insultarp

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/03/rvalue.shtm

the R value they claim are, as some other insulation tests, likely accounting for surrounding materials in addition to the product itself, which account for a significant chunk of their reported "R-value". AFAICT, no foam manufacturer has done likewise, but if they did their R-values would magically grow too. Insultarp I think is slightly better than most foil-bubble products out there as i believe it has *some* foam in the assembly. but that's about it. it's still junk, based on junk science and junk testing. a very high priced vapor barrier with limited insulation capabilities which would be blown out of the water by an appropriate thickness of rigid foam. end of story.

RE: your ability to tell how good insultarp is from your slab surface temps

that's what I was talking about that you interpreted in some odd way... you can't do that. you have a bunch of radiation at high temperature (pipes, boilers, tank, etc) radiating to a slab that IS insulated, however poorly. surface temp will stabilize at a higher temp than if either other factor were removed. that does not mean your slab insulation is appropriate. Just better than nothing.

RE: brookhaven.

You are badly misinterpreting the study. You should pay more attention to Table 2 to see what efficiencies matter and why. steady state thermal efficiency, idle loss, and combustion efficiencies are heating appropriate measures. combined efficiency is important if you are doing combination heat/DHW. in which case, absolutely post purge is a big deal... that's why DHW efficiency in table 2 is so much better on the steel boiler. Without it, of course, ALL the cast iron lags far behind either the mod/con or the purge control steel boiler. and that DHW efficiency rise, not the heating rise, is why the combined efficiency is what it is on the other chart.

all the buffer and purge control CAN do is bring efficiency closer to the combustion efficiency, so if you did the same thing to a mod/con you were doing to the cast iron boiler, its efficiency would also rise and you'd be back to mod/con beating cast iron OR the steel boiler. and, wouldn't you know it, most of our systems USE such controls on mod cons. but that must drive you NUTS, since it's EVEN MORE TECH. but again, it's typically cost effective. again, if your load is low enough to make that statement NOT true, then use the combination water heater and you'll probably even BEAT the cast iron boiler in efficiency.

RE: "substantiating what I sell".

I don't sell boilers, once again, other than occasionally as a convenience to my professional contractor clients. Further, my fuel bill will tell you nothing at all, because you don't have any idea what my heat load is, what temperature I keep my house at, how I use DHW, etc etc etc. Plus I'm on propane, not natural gas, and I spent a lot more than you do on fuel for that reason and the fact that my house needs serious energy retrofits. Finally, I'm in Maine, not chicago, in the woods. What kind of solar gain do you have? can you quantify it? how about computer/light usage? how many people in the home?

Asking for a 'fuel bill' is just silly... it's "non info". which I believe you *should* know if you "understand heat transfer".



I in no way wish to discourage spirited debate I don't "argue from authority", but the fact is, while you grasp many factors that many people don't, you do NOT have the context to evaluate it properly. I am not saying that as a placeholder for a better argument. I'm saying that because your assertions are factually incorrect.

In short: you "know enough to be dangerous". But you don't know enough to get the right answer. and your raving conspiracy theories, while amusing, don't do anything to dissuade my impression.
NRT.Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 07:58 PM   #37
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Rob, I am fully aware that the government went after Insulation Solutions for the way they presented their R values a few years ago. It is rated at R-5.9 down from R-7, big deal, which for a 1/2" compressed, is more per half inch than foam board, best case, supposedly R-7 per inch. Say what you will about the product, I like it.

What I wonder about is that all you do is dance around the fire. You referred to research on Insul-Tarp, and you presented none. I told you that I only had a water heater in that section of the basement, and you come back telling me that my thinking is wrong because I have a boiler, pipes and hot water heater with the Insul-Tarp when I do not. When it comes to modcons versus cast irons, you say, "All the research I've read confirms it (that modcons are more efficient)." To me, much of the research completed today, is getting to be as fraudulent as the politcal polls.

You seemed to have overlooked something on my last post, so I made this post all blue. You have a house. You put in an Ultra boiler of some sort of modcon. You said you have baseboard heat. And now, so that it can be seen, I have two questions of you. I suggested somethng to you before in blue, and I not sure why you did not respond.

What was your heating bill last year?

How many therms did you use?

Last edited by rickmay; 10-19-2011 at 08:08 PM.
rickmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 11:47 AM   #38
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


itin1200, I would like to remind you of something. I just stumbled on a post where someone suggested that you add up the feet of baseboard and multiply it by 600 (I know you have large cast iron radiators). The chances of this being the correct size of boiler are nil. Old houses are notorius for having an excessive amount of radiation. This means the radiators are too big and oversized and capable of putting out much more heat than you need. My house was built in 1929 and was added to in 1975. I calculated the heat loss on my house and it was 54,000 loss in the front of the house with the large radiators, and it was 38,000 in the back of the house with baseboard. Now, if I used this guys method above of sizing my boiler, I would have oversized the boiler by 57%. You do not want to do this. I have 100' of baseboard in that area times 600 btus or 60,000 btus of radiation capability. 60,000-38,000=22,000/38,000= 57%. If the boiler is sized this way, you will be throwing money out the window. Didn't you say your munchkin was a 140 also. Some people size this way (they look at the boiler and ask if you are getting enough heat), but still can be wrong. My house has a ton of windows and is 2,350 square feet with no or poor insulation, except for the attic. My boiler has an input of 105,000 and a net IBR rating of 74,000 btus, and the middle number is 84,000. My boiler is good down to -5f which is short of what I should have. If the inside is kept at 70f, that is 75 degree differential. I am using 10,000 btus more for every 10 degree temp drop. If your house is the same size, a 140 is probably too large. I forget what you call the middle number without looking at my boiler tag, but I have an 80% boiler times the 105,000 input = 84,000. If you get a 140 times a 90% efficiency, that makes the middle number 126,000 btu output. My boiler heats my house down to -5f which I think is the design temp for PA, so based on 126,000 output, your house should be about 3,525 square feet. (126,000-84,000=42,000/84,000 =50% This 140,000 boiler puts out 50% more heat than mine. Boilers should be designed with a 10 or 15% fudge factor at the most, so I hope your house is the 3,250 square feet. If it isn't, something is wrong in Denmark.

Before last winter, I had two boilers, a 275,000 and a 105,000. At first, I was going to toss the small boiler, but did just the opposite knowing I would be short a little. In my case, I know exactly what I need in btus in a new boiler. Since my current boiler starts to lose ground between 0 and -5f, I know that I am using 74,000 IBR (100% of its capability), so if I replace the boiler, and used my calculation which came in at 92,000 btus, the new boiler will have 18,000 more btus, which would put me down around -20f. This is what I want.

Remember, heating salesmen are not the installers. If they measured every house, glass windows, doors walls, and so on, they would only be placing a third to a half the number of bids. It is a numbers game for them, and they don't give a rats a_ _ about you. So, if these guys came to your house and did not measure, every window, every door, every patio door, all the exterior wall surface, comfirm insulation and measure the attic, measure the basement floor, YOU ARE THE LOSER. This must be done.

One other thing itin1200, a modcon oversized is no better than an oversized 80%. If you go to www.comfort-calc.net you will see I am doing nothing more than echoing what this retired installer is saying. He has diagrams of all the standard sizes of old cast iron radiators. You measure the height and width of one section on each radiator, compare the number of tubes on the chart and then multiply by the number of sections in the radiator. This will give you the total of square feet exposed to the air. This will tell you how many btus each radiator is capable of putting out. You then compare this total to the total on heat loss calculation form. If the radiators were perfectly sized, you would run the water through at 180f or so. If they are 40% oversized, you may run the water at only 150-160 f on the coldest days. And since many of these systems were originally steam, they are all over sized. That may seem like a bad thing at first, but it is actually good that they are over-sized. If you look at the charts, you will see that you can run the water through the radiators at a lower temperature. Name calling is not tolerated itin1200, even you could use a buffer tank, but the payback is longer. Buffer tanks are best with some small zones, like in the back of my house. I actually measured the amount of water in all of my zones. The large radiator part had over 70 gallons of water (about 18 five gallon buckets filled to 4 gal.). When you heat 70 gallons of water, it takes a long time, so the boiler doesn't cycle so much as a 2.75 gallon zone like in the back of my house. Generally speaking, the longer a boiler runs at any one time, the more efficient it is. Sounds wrong, but that is the way it is.

The only way to size a boiler is to fill out the attached form measuring all of the exterior walls, windows and doors. The form is too large for the website, so if you send me your email address, I will send it to you. It is a pdf file and I can't shrink it. Clutch, if you want it, let me know.

itin1200, I will say this again, put in new windows and insulate first. If the house is drafty, it is very difficult to even measure heat loss, the house is uncomfortable and you are losing more money that way. Replace all the leaky windows first. My last house was almost as old as your, and it had these 5' by 5' double hung windows. I replaced a number of them with Marvin windows called tilt-pacs. I did it myself. You remove the stops on the windows, pull them out, pull the cords (chains), attach the side pieces of the Marvins, and insert the two double hungs. No trim work to do. If you want to try, do like I did, pick a small window and do it. If you goof it up, you have lost a few bucks, but then you will know how to do it, and know how to measure. It took me three hours for the 5x5 because it was 100 year old 1/4" plate glass. The wood weighed nothing, each pane of glass was probably 60 pounds or more.

In any case, a new boiler does not add value, new windows will, however. Do the heat loss calc, redo it with double panes, do it with insulation. You will save more every year doing this work, and then get the new boiler, and it will be 2/3rds the size, as will your bill for gas. This is where the smart money goes. If your gas bill goes down $400 doesn't that pay for your annual munchkin work?

Just make sure you read their measuring instructions carefully and make adjustments for the window being out of square (use a 2' carpenters square), and read the install instructions carefully. You will save thousands of dollars doing this yourself. It scared me a little first, but if you try one small window first it gets easier. Window companies charge by the window, so if you buy one or fifty the cost of each window is the same. If they install, it will be cheaper to do all at once because they can't be driving over to you house every day to put in one window at a time.
No one spent the couple of hours measuring everything I mentioned above, did they?

Last edited by beenthere; 10-20-2011 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Name calling
rickmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 03:15 PM   #39
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,416
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Lets leave the name calling out of post.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 04:25 PM   #40
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


beenthere, I have been called a lot of names right to my face, but I didn't see your little red pencil come out on any of those people. The comment above was not even attached to anyone in particular. Is there some reason you singled me out?

Last edited by rickmay; 10-20-2011 at 04:54 PM.
rickmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 05:51 PM   #41
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 729
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Quote:
Originally Posted by rickmay

Beenthere, my "hearsay" is from an engineer who doesn't carry boilers around everyday, so he answers questions based on his knowledge and not his prejudices. Somehow, I would rather side with him.
This is the point that you became offensive. I understand you are from Chicago, and the elitism was bred into you, and you probably don't know better.
The way it works in the real world is that the engineer designs the equipment. The equipment is built to the specs and sent out for field testing. The technician installs the equipment and evaluates its performance, and recommends changes needed to the design, based on field conditions. The engineer takes these recommendations and revises the design. This goes on until the equipment is deemed marketable and reliable. Both technician and engineer have to work together using each others knowledge and experience to achieve a final result.
The end point of this is that just getting one side of the argument , does not give you the whole story.

I think that its great that you have gotten involved with the replacement of your heating system and want to make the best design for your home. An informed customer makes it much easier to meet their wants and needs.
This forum is for the discussion of what's best for each particular individual, based on thier needs, and expectations. Its not to prove, or dispute the best heating system, and the way to do it. Homes come in many shapes and sizes. Not one configuration is going to be the best for all homes. Quoting web references, facts, figures, and opinions, without the working experience is leaving you at a disadvantage. So instead of learning from experienced professionals you go into attack mode, and now claim victim status.

If you want the best system for your home, start asking questions of those whom have lived their life dealing with these issues. Think of it like driving. The DMV book only taught you the rules..not how to drive the car. Someone experienced helped you with that.
Master of Cold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 07:07 PM   #42
I have gas!
 
Clutchcargo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,765
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Unfortuneatly, an experienced and recommended professional is why I now have an oversized boiler. That's why I'm interested in the buffer tank.
But to my installer's defense, I'm sure he's never been called back because someone complained about too much heat.
__________________
I tear things down and build them up.
Clutchcargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 08:38 PM   #43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


It is frustrating, Clutch, sorry to hear that. Like your signature.
rickmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 09:15 PM   #44
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,416
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Quote:
Originally Posted by rickmay View Post
beenthere, I have been called a lot of names right to my face, but I didn't see your little red pencil come out on any of those people. The comment above was not even attached to anyone in particular. Is there some reason you singled me out?
If you have been called name in one of these post, point it out.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 09:18 PM   #45
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,416
Default

Cast iron vs mod/cons


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutchcargo View Post
Unfortuneatly, an experienced and recommended professional is why I now have an oversized boiler. That's why I'm interested in the buffer tank.
But to my installer's defense, I'm sure he's never been called back because someone complained about too much heat.
Lots of contractors tend to simply replace with the same size as the old unit. Because they don't know any better, or else how to size correctly.

Its a shame that it still happens.

beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pvc to cast iron hub using fernco-can't get it! What have I done Plumbing 10 01-22-2014 07:55 PM
Help me! Cast Iron Leak (Picture) meandiet Plumbing 8 08-14-2011 04:41 PM
replacing cast iron pipe davemarz Plumbing 1 05-20-2011 09:16 PM
cast iron or pvc treerat Plumbing 1 03-29-2011 06:38 AM
working with cast iron ericadami Plumbing 9 11-30-2008 12:45 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.