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Old 05-14-2011, 05:56 PM   #1
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Carrier 58MXA problems


My 12 year old furnace developed a carbon monoxide leak. Fortunately - we have a detector. I was told it was Inducer assembly and it was replaced. I was also told problem had to do with venting pipe. It was 3 inch; pipe that went down to 2 inch; pipe at the house wall. He said back pressure caused part to fail and changed the pipe to all 2 inch; (but chart says at my altitude I should have 2 1/2 - 3inch; pipe!). Three months later furnace failed again - this time could hear water when it came on! The condensate pump was packed full of mud! how does this happen when it was just repaired 3 months previous (or did service man not bother to check entire furnace???) Then - three months later another problem. The circuit board fried - we smelled electrical type burning and next morning realized furnace was not working again. Had to replace the circuit board! What is going on here? Should a furnace fail after only 12 years to this degree? Never had any problems until now.


Last edited by Marie67; 05-14-2011 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:36 PM   #2
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My 12 year old furnace developed a carbon monoxide leak. Fortunately - we have a detector. I was told it was Inducer assembly and it was replaced. I was also told problem had to do with venting pipe. It was 3 inch; pipe that went down to 2 inch; pipe at the house wall. He said back pressure caused part to fail and changed the pipe to all 2 inch; (but chart says at my altitude I should have 2 1/2 - 3inch; pipe!). Three months later furnace failed again - this time could hear water when it came on! The condensate pump was packed full of mud! how does this happen when it was just repaired 3 months previous (or did service man not bother to check entire furnace???) Then - three months later another problem. The circuit board fried - we smelled electrical type burning and next morning realized furnace was not working again. Had to replace the circuit board! What is going on here? Should a furnace fail after only 12 years to this degree? Never had any problems until now.

If you as a HO know the facts of what size vent pipe to use then why use a guy who didn't use the correct size in the first place? That would lead me to believe that he is not the kind of technician who would check anything past the problem he was called out there to diagnose as was the case originally but it is not mandatoy for any tech to do so, regarldess. If you want a furnace/entire system check up then you need to say and pay for it up front. That way you are covered as everything they check will be listed on your paperwork and I'd have to believe that a drain pump/evaporator would be checked during a check up. I know it is when I do one.

That undersized vent pipe is the only thing worrying me as it will back pressure again and back pressure leads to FLAME roll out and CO leaks.

As for the control board, it's too iffy to say one problem caused the other and wouldn't put my money on thinking so. More coincidence at this point and 12 years is not bad for a control board.

Have that vent pipe redone, demand it with proof that you know what the correct size should be (again, have proof of that info) and save up for a new furance.

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Old 05-14-2011, 07:47 PM   #3
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Thanks Doc - do you know that "Doc Holliday" died and is buried in the town I live in??? Just thought I'd mention it.

Regarding the pipe - I wouldn't know if it needed to be shaped like a corkscrew - I was told by another repair man who came when the condensate pump backed up. He looked at the specs for the furnace and told me at that time. Since I had to call the original repairman I asked him about it as well, and he said he felt 2 inches was OK because the distance from furnace to outside is only about 15 feet. This was the Carrier recommended repair shop. As for when it was originally installed - again I wouldn't know. But I did go to the Building Department asking them about the change in size from 3 inches to 2 inches to exit the building and since there was nothing in the manual about not being able to do that they didn't see where they had done anything wrong in approving it. Original installer is out of business.

It depresses me that you feel my furnace is on the way out as well. Second repairman thinks so too... I still think 12 years is way too early. My parents have a furnace that is 57 years old! I'm not expecting that, but a bit more than twelve years!!!

One other thing that is going on - strong smell of exhaust that I never noticed before if I am outside when heater is on.

Last edited by Marie67; 05-14-2011 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:02 PM   #4
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Thanks Doc - do you know that "Doc Holliday" died and is buried in the town I live in??? Just thought I'd mention it.

Regarding the pipe - I wouldn't know if it needed to be shaped like a corkscrew - I was told by another repair man who came when the condensate pump backed up. He looked at the specs for the furnace and told me at that time. Since I had to call the original repairman I asked him about it as well, and he said he felt 2 inches was OK because the distance from furnace to outside is only about 15 feet. This was the Carrier recommended repair shop. As for when it was originally installed - again I wouldn't know. But I did go to the Building Department asking them about the change in size from 3 inches to 2 inches to exit the building and since there was nothing in the manual about not being able to do that they didn't see where they had done anything wrong in approving it. Original installer is out of business.

It depresses me that you feel my furnace is on the way out as well. Second repairman thinks so too... I still think 12 years is way too early. My parents have a furnace that is 57 years old! I'm not expecting that, but a bit more than twelve years!!!

One other thing that is going on - strong smell of exhaust that I never noticed before if I am outside when heater is on.
About three weeks ago I replaced a 19 year old Armstrong furnace that was in excellent condition due to the control board going out. I could have replaced just the control board, I gave the option to do so, but what if other problems occured without any warranty which is ten years on the new furance? The new blower motor alone will drop the electric bill not too mention all of the air leaks I sealed and the owner (or myslef) couldn't even hear the furnace on during operation but we both sure could feel it! And that furnace cost under 2K installed. If he had gone with only the control board for one quarter that price and then the inducer went out and then the blower then he'd have already spent more than enough for a new furnace and still not have the ten year warranty on any of those parts as parts installed individually is one year. A new furnace is ten years warranty on every part in it which is all of those parts.

As for the gas smell outside, I'm assuming the exhaust gas is more concentrated with the smaller diameter vent pipe so that would tell me that yes indeed it is being restricted. Not too mention the pipe is hotter than design temperature being too small which is not code.

Someone feeling that it is right does not make it right and Carrier recommending anyone does not make them good, as you are unfortunately finding out, why he's out of business. Luckily your second contractor knows how to research the proven data for vent pipes and caught it.

Say, can I come and stay at your place while I visit Doc's burial site? Do you cook? I'll take care of you furnace problems!!

Last edited by Doc Holliday; 05-14-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:09 PM   #5
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I'm a huge fan of Doc Holliday and I love watching Tombstone, seen it about 100 times.

Okay, sorry for sidetracking.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:32 PM   #6
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Doc,

You are too funny - unfortunately, I am not much of a cook!

But the offer is much appreciated.

Thanks for all the info. I wish you had checked my furnace out to begin with as well - I have about $1400 into it with all the repairs- and it would have been more except I protested loudly when I was charged 6 hours for 2 hours of work...I was told I was paying for the 1 1/2 hours it took him to load the parts into his truck, another 1/2 hour for the extra 5 minutes he was here, and 1 1/2 hours for traveling here and back. There is still a half hour there that was never explained...anyhoo...life is a learning experience.

I will do my homework this summer and be prepared if it goes out again next winter.

Did you figure out where I live?
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:55 PM   #7
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Doc,

You are too funny - unfortunately, I am not much of a cook!

But the offer is much appreciated.


Did you figure out where I live?
John Henry "Doc" Holliday was supposed to be buried in Linwood Springs Cemetary in Glenwood Springs, Co. but all evidence from that time suggest the weather was too severe for anyone to have a burial at said time. He supposedly was buried at the foothills of that cemetary, has a "Tombstone" in that cemetary as well as one in his birth city next to his father in Griffin, Ga. in Oak Hill Cemetary, where he is as well supposedly buried.

Know one knows with any certainty where he is buried but you could live in either of those two places.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:00 PM   #8
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ps, I don't mind eating out!!

If I were there I'd help as best I could.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:16 PM   #9
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It's also said that either Doc's father or cousin came to Linwood and retreived his body and took it back to GA but even then it is said that the two Tombstones in GA in Oak Hills Cemetary which are made of marble (only wealthy people had marble graves and Doc's father was very wealthy) are unmarked so uncertain of who is there. Doc's father's actual burial whereabouts is unkown as his body may have been lifted as well but most evidence points to Ga for the both of them.

Now ask me about Spider Man!!
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:19 PM   #10
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Absolutely true - the grave in Linwood Cemetary is only a gravestone - it overlooks Glenwood Springs - it is known for a fact he is not buried there. The cemetary was not moved - it is still there today. It was believed he may have been buried in the basement of the Glenwood Hotel on the corner of 8th and Grand, but if so, his body was moved at another time and no one here knows where. At least that is the story told by the Historical Society here. They have a Ghost Walk each Halloween and Doc Holliday is one of the characters who tells his story.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:39 PM   #11
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Bill Dunn of Griffin can tell you exactly where he thinks the remains of that legend are located. Dunn, who is the head of the Doc Holliday Society and a distant relative of Hollidayís, has been engaged in extensive research on the Holliday family for the past 17 years. Bill states,Ē There is no doubt in my mind why the people in Glenwood Springs donít know exactly where Doc is buried, as he isnít there. I believe Doc is buried right here in his hometown of Griffin. Doc was originally buried in Linwood Cemetery, but he is not there now. You just donít lose the grave of a man who held his celebrity status.Ē

Some researchers believe that Docís father, Major Henry Holliday, C.S.A., went to Glenwood Springs and claimed his sonís remains. Anyone who says that Major Holliday didnít have motive to return his remains back to his place of birth discounts the strength of a Southern heritage. Money was not an issue. Major Holliday was a very wealthy man. Transportation of the coffin would probably have been done by rail, as the train depot in Griffin was within a mile of the cemetery.

Dunn thinks that if the Major did not retrieve Docís remains himself, he had his nephew, Robert Alexander Holliday, go for him. In fact, Docís girlfriend, Kate Elder, recalled that one of Docís cousins visited him in Tombstone after the shootout at the OK Corral. Dunn believes that this man was cousin Robert. After Docís death, it seems reasonable that Robert would have traveled out to retrieve the body, provided the Major had asked the favor.

Strangely coincidental, or maybe not, the grave of Major Holliday is also missing. Considering that the Major was a wealthy landowner, hero of three wars, and mayor of Valdosta, Georgia, that fact seems unlikely. Major Holliday outlived his son, but not the legend. He died on February 22, 1893, in Valdosta, but his grave has never been located. Dunn has found the grave of every Holliday except for the Major and Doc. Dunn now believes without a doubt that he has found the unmarked graves of both in Griffinís Oak Hill Cemetery.

The two unmarked graves that Dunn has found are located in the Thomas plot. The families were very close and the Thomas family may have agreed to an anonymous burial of Doc in their family plot to avoid vandalism of his grave. ďI believe they buried Doc in Oak Hill when he was brought back from Glenwood Springs and Major Holliday was buried there when he died,Ē Dunn said. ďWhy would a plot containing expensive marble markers of the Thomas family contain two concrete slab graves with no marking? Could it be they wanted them to remain anonymous?

Osgood Miller, an employee of Clark Monument Company for forty-six years, supports Dunnís claim. He remembers the late Charlie McElroy, who was the cemetery superintendent during the 1930s, telling him that Doc Holliday was buried in Oak Hill. Charlie had pointed in the direction of the Thomas plot. Several years later the late Griffin historian Laura Clark pointed out the same area as Docís final resting place.

In 1906, The Washington Post stated, ďDoc Holliday was a native of Georgia and take him all in all, he was possessed of the most daredevil and reckless bravery of any of his associates.Ē After all these years, does Docís ghost walk the streets of Griffin at night? Not likely, but if you visit Oak Hill Cemetery on a moon-lit night you may encounter, as Wyatt Earp once said, ďthe nerviest, fastest, deadliest man with a six-gun I ever saw.Ē As Doc once said, ďyou may be a daisy if you do!Ē
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:41 PM   #12
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Since you never really answered and for curiousity's sake, are you in Colorado or in Ga? I'm guessing Ga.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:15 AM   #13
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The answer lies in where Doc Holliday died - which is indisputably Glenwood Springs.
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:36 AM   #14
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Thanks for coming back and answering. I can't say I honestly care where he was born or where he finally rests (even thoug his would like to visit his grave) but rather the excitement of the man, the myth and the legend for myself lays in where, and how, he lived: BADASS!!










Alrighty Marie, this was very entertaining for me, getting to talk about Doc.

I appreciate the conversation,

Doc.

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