Home Air Direct

That is an assumption that may or may not be correct. The OP has not given you enough information to say that without guessing yourself.

The guy is in Dixieland and it gets hot. He has considered a 2.5 ton , but is considering 16 SEER, so where is his choice? He also lives in a home built in the mid 1950's. He is going to add some insulation and change windows, but we all know that there is just so much that can be done. He also has been getting local quotes and loads that indicate he is on the line for size.

Everyone always wants to assume that there has been no thought on the part of the HO. I understand that the pro's mindset is never going to change, and that often the pros are protecting the DIY'er, but not every case is going to have a bad outcome.

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Settle down! If you were that important, the city would give you lights and a siren for your car

Home Air Direct

Inspirational.

There are pros who are happy with the pay for the job done. Few of them reside here, but they do exist and many are just as good at their trade as those who will not, they just have a different business plan.

Thanks for sharing that. Sometimes the reason a HO tries to DIY this project is personal greed, but that are many cases where they are backed against the wall and have to do the best they can to work with the resources that they have. Shame on anyone who casts a stone at those who, because of economic hardship have to try and limit their spending to a minimum.

I imagine that my time here is limited because I am a champion for the DIY'er and yes, if you drill it down, my reasons are selfish, but in the end, no more selfish than the pro who is discouraging the DIY instead of educating.

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Settle down! If you were that important, the city would give you lights and a siren for your car

tinner73

this is why i said "most likely"...i don't know if i am right and you don't know if i am wrong. what we both know is that 400 sq feet per ton is waaay extreme. i am doing 2400 sq feet w/3 tons. so i'll stand by my assumption that is going to be over sized. the whole problem with this scenerio is that most people don't have the right info and are preyed upon by people only interested in making a quick buck.

Home Air Direct

I agree with you that 3 tons on 1,500 squares is probably too much. I think that one of the things that happens is that homeowners gauge the ability of their next system based on their current antiquated equipment that is limping by on the edge of death. This HO needs at the least to do a detailed block load to at least be close, and if possible, a full manual J.

Your comment "preyed upon". The HO is being "preyed upon" by local contractors who are more interested in giving him a bigger system than he needs. Not all online resources are out for the "quick buck". That may be your view, but it is not always the case. Even though you are not on sight, manual J loads do get done, and duct designs are considered. If you think call backs are bad for a contractor, I can tell you that a "return" is one of the messiest things that you can imagine at the online level.

I am little fussy this morning (too many fireworks last night) and not letting it bounce off of me as well as I should. Just don't assume that you work harder than someone else. Until you have been in other shoes, you don't know the extent that another form of your business goes to for the customer. It just is not exactly the way to do it, so it must be wrong.

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Settle down! If you were that important, the city would give you lights and a siren for your car

tinner73

the "preyed upon" comment wasn't necessarily aimed toward you but if your conscious is bothering you ..so be it. i did visit your website and it tells me that you would sell me a 4 tonner...interesting. the exact problems about guessing that you complain about here...are promoted on your own website.
http://www.hvacopcost.com/equipsize.html according to your website he needs anywhere from 3-3.3 tons??? guessing at it from me is bad.. but OK for you? is it OK for your company to size his house from 400 miles away? is that your standard? is the bar that low? is this not part of the problem with a lot of houses? wrong equipment and inadequate duct work.
as i look at your website i see it says "to estimate heating and cooling equipment size* enter the square footage of your home" then in small print at the bottom it says " this calculator should not be used to determine the size of a new hvac unit, it is intended for cost comparision purposes only. how is this not an exact contradiction? this is exactly what is wrong with the residential industry.

Home Air Direct

Again, you are filling the basket with assumptions. In the past year I have done over 70 full blown manual J calcs for homeowners. The process takes days and of course relies on the accuracy of information from homeowners. I use rezcalc and RHVACalc. I have 144 systems sales shipped in the past 12 months and have many satisfied customers that have lower utility bills and much more comfortable homes. I do not have a guilty conscience (not yet anyway)

That sizing tool is just to give thought to the process. The OP in this case is a candidate for 2.5 tons.

I guess the thing that I don't understand is why, if this is a DIY (HVAC) forum, you are here to only promote the same tired opinion that every pro has about homeowners and their desire to DIY to some degree? This market is less than 3% of the total residential market, and these homeowners have been around since the beginning. Do they fail now and then? Sure, but there are also many successes too.

I wish you the best of luck and I do understand (much more than you know) the frustrations that you as a pro goes through to maintain your assets and your sanity. I do respect good contractors. I also think that there are many bad contractors that hide in the bright light of big YP ads and marketing programs that are much more interested in fleecing their customer base than they are in helping them.

We are done with this conversation and you are welcome to have the last word. I wish the OP in this case a positive outcome, and I hope the best for you and your business as well.

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Settle down! If you were that important, the city would give you lights and a siren for your car

hvaclover

You gonna lot the newbie break your ball? C'mon ...you got your ight to sell the way you want.

Don't let him get the last word!

He doesn't have high enough post count to mouth off to a senior member!

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Just slow, not stupid.

Home Air Direct

He has a right to his opinion like everybody else....and you know what they say about opinions

Senior member When the hell did that happen

Thanks Hvaclover

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Settle down! If you were that important, the city would give you lights and a siren for your car

Home Air Direct

Hvaclover is poking the bear

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Settle down! If you were that important, the city would give you lights and a siren for your car

hvaclover

Ah c'mon! That guy was a wimpy five post count.

You got close to two hundred. Kinda of an unwritten rule that the guy with more posts has to be given respect. If he won't give it to you, than TAKE it!

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Just slow, not stupid.

tinner73

by your own admission you have done 70 calcs and have 144 units shipped. that is 74 homes (53% of your customers) that may or may not be sized right. what is sad is that you boast about that sorry number.
the sizing tool is deceptive and inaccurate...and no it does not show 2.5 tons..it says 3 tons for Memphis.
i am aware this is a DIY site..thanks. if you actually read what i posted i never once said it should not be done DIY. so my "tired opinion" is really more about people not getting the proper information from people that are more concerned about moving boxes than making sure the job is done properly.

to the OP do your research on your warranty as well. many manufacturers do not warranty any internet sales...regardless of what the internet suppliers tell you.

from Goodman's warranty... "Neither warranty applies to, and no warranty is offered by Goodman on, any unit ordered over the Internet."

http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Portals/0/pdf/PWCACHPCC.pdf

trying to make sure all of the information is on the table for these people.

see you on the other site hvaclover.

hvaclover

Tinner this IS a DIY site. Don't go giving the guy grief as if this were a PRO site.

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Just slow, not stupid.

tinner73

what grief?
the inaccurate "equipment guesser"?
the lack of warranty these people may get?
tell me where i am incorrect?


i never mentioned having a pro do the work. quite frankly.. there are lot of hacks in the trade and i cannot blame anyone for trying. i'm just stating the facts about getting the correct info from the start.

if someone attempts this without getting their facts straight they will have to live with the consequences.

beenthere

Why would your time here be limited because you support DIY???

Its a DIY site. LOL

hvaclover

Yes. All the connection you mention may be true, But this is not a pro site so it's not "OUR HOUSE". It's DIY so it's "HIS HOUSE"

We don't put up with DIYs ****t!ng in our house on the PRO sites so give the man the same treatment and don't sh!t in his house.

Your new but understand this: Pros are here to help because they want to. And that includes advice on installs. We pros here want to see they get the best job they can get.

I would rather have a DIY remember a pro gave him helpful info to get his install right not rag on him about his inability to do a competent job.
It improves the hvac industry image just a little more.
Direct Air sells to DIY, that's his business and we give advice.

If you can't go along with that then you might want to move along to to hvac-talk.

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Just slow, not stupid.