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-   -   Bryant 394J Furnace - Pilot stays ON all the time (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/bryant-394j-furnace-pilot-stays-all-time-33559/)

Davexxx 12-10-2008 10:51 PM

Bryant 394J Furnace - Pilot stays ON all the time
 
Please forgive my newbieness! We bought a Foreclosure home, with a late 80's Bryant/Carrier 394J Furnace, 'condemned' by House Inspection because pilot stays lit all the time - whereas, I believe, it should only light prior to furnace being turned on? I can light pilot with a match and furnace works OK. I have been told it needs a new gas valve, part P361-1501. Online research indicates suitable replacement is EF32CW183. I'm competent with electrics and general plumbing, but not experienced with this stuff!
1) Could I replace the valve myself and assume it is factory set as standard - or would there need to be any technical adjustments or special test equipment (eg pressure gauges?) needed?
2) On the present valve, a 1/4" silver pipe protrudes from TOP of valve, around and down to the pilot assy (presumably, gas feed to pilot) - but pictures of the EF32CW183 seem to show that orifice to the SIDE, next to 3/4" gas outlet: so would mean I need to re-route (cut, bend..) the pipe myself?
3) Can I safely assume the (5) electric wires terminal numbers will correspond (1=1, 2=2, etc) despite being in different places? many thanks in anticipation! Dave

hvaclover 12-10-2008 11:11 PM

it' not hard to install if a person is a tech. But if you feel comfortable doing it your self go ahead. If the pilot line is diff location on new valve then of course the it will have to attached accordingly.

No you can't assume the the valve is set right. This is where DIYs and Pros diverge.

You will need a manometer to adjust pressure on main valve.

beenthere 12-11-2008 01:02 AM

When you say you can light the pilot with a match.
Do you have to hold down a button to do this.

SKIP4661 12-11-2008 07:23 AM

Its not too difficult to replace the gas valve. The pilot tube is typically made from aluminum so if its long enough it will only need to be bent to fit the new valve. The wires are probably in a different l0cation on the new valve but the numbers are the same. You will need to swap the wires as numbered.

hvaclover 12-11-2008 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere (Post 196631)
When you say you can light the pilot with a match.
Do you have to hold down a button to do this.

Five wire valve with the pick and hold coil stuck open.

Don't think its a standing pilot valve.

Davexxx 12-11-2008 12:22 PM

Thanks for responses so far!
 
Thanks Guys for your help/advice.
- Beenthere:- to confirm, no button to hold down; pilot gas flows constantly when main knob turned on 180 degrees.
- Skip:- thanks, it looks aluminium; there is sufficient tube to reach new destination; can I simply bend tube (gently!) by hand? It won't kink flat like 1/2" copper tube?
- Hvaclover:- What's a 'Standing Pilot Valve', and 'pick and hold coil'? And if the coil is stuck open, what are the chances I could dismantle the valve and 'free it'?
How/where to use a manometer (on gas Input? Output? Pilot line? So I know what size 'attachments' it needs, assuming I get one somewhere...)

- Anyone:- Can someone tell me what ARE the different wires/colors for, and their voltages, in case I need to fault-find further, and satisfy my electronics understanding of the beast! Thanks all of you.

SKIP4661 12-11-2008 12:36 PM

The aluminum tubing is fairly soft and bends easily. Just don't bend it too sharp. The pilot valve, pick and hold coils are built into the gas valve. The wiring to the valve is 24v a. c.. I would have to look at the wiring diagram on the door panel to know what wire goes where.

hvaclover 12-11-2008 04:44 PM

quote - Hvaclover:- What's a 'Standing Pilot Valve', and 'pick and hold coil'? And if the coil is stuck open, what are the chances I could dismantle the valve and 'free it'? end quote

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Don't even think about it!
I guarantee you will blow you home up.

Just buy a new valve and be done with it.

Buying a manometer for a one time repair is not practical as a good one will cost over $120.


Davexxx 12-11-2008 11:02 PM

Thanks, but...
 
...to recap... I need a manometer... yet, it isn't practical to buy one... Can't quite see what you're saying... Or are you saying this site is for qualified professionals only, as only qualified professionals should be touching these things? Sorry if I'm not qualified to be here, I'm only trying to understand, to ask questions to get answers!

...can anyone answer other questions I asked - what IS a Standing Pilot Valve? and, what is a pick and hold coil? and where in the circuit would the manometer be used? (or are the answers to these questions only for those Within The Inner Circle?! :))

Thanks.

hvaclover 12-12-2008 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davexxx (Post 197006)
...to recap... I need a manometer... yet, it isn't practical to buy one... Can't quite see what you're saying... Or are you saying this site is for qualified professionals only, as only qualified professionals should be touching these things? Sorry if I'm not qualified to be here, I'm only trying to understand, to ask questions to get answers!

...can anyone answer other questions I asked - what IS a Standing Pilot Valve? and, what is a pick and hold coil? and where in the circuit would the manometer be used? (or are the answers to these questions only for those Within The Inner Circle?! :))

Thanks.

You want to buy a manometer no body is stopping you. I think it's clear what I meant when i posted it. If you have a use for it other than the repair you are talking about I'd keep it too. By the time you pay for the valve and the manometer you'll have almost the cost of having a pro do it for you.

Just does not make good dollars cents to me. Care to explain why you think you need to buy one for a one time use?

No i did not say this site is for qualified pros only. We have pros here that help out of which I am one. But if a poster displays a certain lack of mechanical aptitude (especially when questions answered are re-asked)then usually the pro will have to decide if it's in the best interest of the OP to advise further.

beenthere 12-12-2008 04:55 AM

Standing pilot.
Pilot flame is on 24/7

Intermitant pilot.
Pilot flame is on only to light main flame, its off all other times.

Of course, if you get a good manometer. You can then check your duct system to see if its undersized.

HVACLOVER was trying to say, that for a one time use, it isn't cost practical.

You could get a cheap U tube manometer.

U tube plus the fittings/hoses. Depending which one you get, cost you between 20 and 50 bucks.

hvaclover 12-12-2008 09:24 AM

been he knew what was meant. I think he got a bug in his ear when i told him not to disassemble his gas valve to fix it .

Pretty clear that the advice against buying a manometer that would work for his need would be better if it were digital as the manual fluid types need some getting used to. Not something I would recommend for a person not in the trades. Like you said it's impractical for one repair only cause once he bought the valve and the instrument he's got the price a pro would charge to fix the job.

brokenknee 12-13-2008 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hvaclover (Post 196859)
quote - Hvaclover:- What's a 'Standing Pilot Valve', and 'pick and hold coil'? And if the coil is stuck open, what are the chances I could dismantle the valve and 'free it'? end quote

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Don't even think about it!
I guarantee you will blow you home up.

Just buy a new valve and be done with it.

Buying a manometer for a one time repair is not practical as a good one will cost over $120.


Manometer $120, Cost to have a teck come out and do the job $120 an hour, (at least were I live) Sounds like a break even point to me, and you will have a new tool in your arsenal and learned a new skill.

If you find you don't really want it after that, they have sites were you can sell it "Craigslist, Ebay"

GarryE 04-08-2012 07:45 AM

Better slow down here. He said that if he lights it with a match it will work. Why, I have no idea if the pilot will light on its own and stay lit. Are there wires going to the pilot burner? If there are 3 wires to it, a green, yellow and white the issue is very likely the pilot burner not the gas valve. Bryant/Carrier used this electro-mechanical pilot assembly that is very prone to failure. The pilot lights by spark and then heats a bi-metal strip which then makes a contact in the burner allowing the gas valve to open and the burners to light. These can be very troublesome. Actually there would be 4 wires to the pilot burner. The 4th wire being an orange ignitor wire. On a successful call for heat the pilot valve opens and then the ignitor will spark, the flame will light, the ignitor will continue to spark until the bi-metal strip reaches the proper temperature and makes the circuit to bring on the gas valve. It sounds as if the pilot is stuck in call for ignition but there is no spark. The ignition control will need to be checked first and proceed from there. These can be time killers to troubleshoot but must be done step by step or you will drop a fortune in parts for no results. Now, having said all of that, if you do not have 4 wires to the pilot burner I wasted a lot of space. If you have the manual for the unit see what you can find in the troubleshooting section. Failing that take the model and serial number and try to find a service manual online and follow the troubleshooting chart in that. If it gets beyond where you are comfortable or are not sure what to do next call someone with Bryant/Carrier experience. I'm not pushing dealer service but we are talking about your safety here.

beenthere 04-08-2012 08:25 AM

Garry. This thread is over 3 years old.


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