Boiler Installation - Am I being gouged?

yuri

Thats why my customers are willing to pay top dollar $$ for what we sell. We take NO shortcuts but charge accordingly and use high quality professional plumbers and installers and sell top notch equipment. When a person buys a machine to last 20 yrs saving $1000/20 yrs = $50 /yr. Wise people do their research and deal with reputable firms and not shop around for the cheapest price.

beenthere

I like going out. And finding a 90%+ boiler, that has been piped up that it only has ½ the water flow going through it, that it should have.
And the customer tells me that they are using more gas now then with the old clunker.

Money to be made. Repiping takes much longer, and cost more.

mahatmakain

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, guys. I've now had a number of contractors out to look at the job and the consensus is that it's a straightforward installation. From my conversations with the original mechanic (over the phone), my sense is that he would do quality work, but he's an employee of the local fuel oil company and I have no idea how much their overhead is. They may be inflating the cost quite a bit, whereas, if it were him working independently, the price would be more competitive. I've done all the research I can online (BBB records, license status with the state of Washington, combing contractor rating sites, customer ratings from online directories, etc...) but I haven't found any reviews or opinions on any of them. BBB records show that every such business has had some complaints over the years, but all have been resolved and the number of complaints is proportional to the size of the company. Some complaints are unavoidable, so I don't worry too much about that. I'll get a few more bids on the job, though.
* I was curious about the comment that Slant Fin and Weil McLain are like Chevy and Buick... I don't know if that means you think they're good or lousy. If the latter, are there brands that are widely considered superior? The earliest posts in this thread stated that most boilers these days are capable of working well for decades if properly installed...
* Point taken about using a lower efficiency boiler: 1. Easier installation (less likelihood of problems later); 2. Lower price; 3. Makes better business sense (being that it's a rental property)
* If pipe sealant is needed, the product I've looked at, Liquid Boiler Seal (GUNK), requires the system to be at full temp before adding, and maintained there for 24 hours before flushing. If I understand correctly, this could only be done with a low-efficiency boiler that doesn't use a water-lubricated pump. Another reason to use a low AFUE boiler, I guess.

yuri

Most boilers will work properly if maintained. However the better quality ones use thicker and better metals and may go over 25 yrs. Slant fin IMO is a lighter duty boiler vs Weil McLain which is one of the top rated by my plumbers who service lots of them. Not sure about Burnham as they are not popular here. Corrosion occurs in all boilers and the thicker ones may last longer, handle stress better. You get what you pay for. If you have a leak those stop gap additives are probably a not good idea/temporary fix. Just like a car radiator it is a stop gap measure. Best to find the leak and fix it properly.

mahatmakain

I agree that it's better to find the leak and fix it, but in this case, the leak (if there is one) is in the heat exchange pipes built into the radiant slab floor. It would be more expensive than I'm willing to pay, to do open-slab surgery, so if the sealant doesn't fix the leak, I'll switch to another type of heat in that house.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on boiler brands, Yuri. This chatroom is a great resource! :-)

beenthere

So if the sealant holds until the middle of next winter. And then leaks.
What are you going to do.

And yes, that has happened to more then system.

mahatmakain

To beenthere: Well, then I'd consider installing radiant panels in the rooms, I guess... I don't know the success rate of those sealant treatments, so I have nothing by which to evaluate the options. We're not really sure, yet, if there is a leak. Earlier, Yuri said the pipes have to be hydrostatically tested, but I found boiler testing instructions that specify using 30 psi of air to test the radiant section. Yuri's argument was that you might have leakage with an air test that wouldn't be there with a water test, so if we find that the system holds pressure with a water test, the sealant option becomes a non-issue. I'm hoping for that.
If the system is leaking, I'm even considering killing off the boiler completely and switching to a furnace and ducts to heat the house.

beenthere

Then why not just do a hydrostatic test???

mahatmakain

Oh, we are doing that test. It's going on right now. :-)

Renovator2209

Most boiler units are not that complex. If you look at the mechanics and parts. Ask yourself, how much can it cost? During the winter months, I got quotes from 12,000.00 to 20,000.00 for a new steam boiler system for a 3500 sq ft house. I waited until the following summer and had one installed for 5700.00. Later, I found the same unit at a distributor for 1200.00. In my opinion, you will get "hit" big time during the winter months. It's what the market will bare. That the key words. Installers know that you do not want to freeze. So, how much are you willing to pay for heat in the winter ? Some people are out to advantage of buyers in the winter. You either pay the high prices now ( during the cold months) or wait till the summer and pay less. For 11,000.00. I would blow out my pipes , shut the house down, and move in with relatives until the warmer months and replace the system at a reasonable price.

hvaclover

Gotta wonder what kind of job you got for that money.

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