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Old 07-14-2010, 08:10 PM   #1
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Blower Motor Won't Run


Hello everyone. This is my first post anywhere, so please be gentle. I am not used to dealing with HVAC units, however I am not new to electronics and circuit boards.

Setup
Honeywell RTH2310 Thermostat

Lennox Reclaimer 80 ( Schematic dated 1988 )
Contains NG Furnace

Lennox outdoor unit

The problem started last winter when the heat went out. Service tech came to my friends house, and 'repaired' it. Heat worked so no one really thought much on it.

But the heat would not reach the second floor, which was not a major issue previously.

About a month ago, we spoke about this, and in the conversation digital thermostats came up. Apparently she ran out and bought one. It appears it is hooked up properly, however the blower fan just wont turn on. I suspect the fan was not working, or perhaps on its way out before.

Well, after spending about 6 hours looking at it, I am kind of stumped as how to proceed.

Outside AC unit turns on, one pipe is warm, the other is cool and sweats. It turns on and off properly.

Wiring was verified as the following:
Thermo Reclaimer 80
Rh - R Jumpered at the thermostat between Rh and Rc
W - W
Y - Y
G - G

Now I understand that G is for the blower, correct?

So I whipped out my VOM.

Voltages were verified as the following at the Reclaimer 80

26.59V C - R ( system was off at the thermostat )

25.8V C - R ( System On )
25.7V C - G ( ... )
25.57V C - Y ( ... )

Everything seemed to be OK. So I follow the G on the schematic. Apparently it runs between a blower control / over temp circuit to an ignition control < terminal marked valve >.

When I tested the voltages there, I obtained a reading of just 15.05V. Everything else being 24V, this doesn't seem right.

Is there some easy way ( crossing two terminals with a jumper ) to test the blower motor to verify it is functioning properly?

Any advice or suggestions on how to proceed is greatly appreciated. The easy answer is just to call a technician, unfortunately economics are preventing that for her.

Many thanks in advance!
Jared

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Old 07-14-2010, 08:56 PM   #2
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Blower Motor Won't Run


There should be a proper model # like G8 xxx or G14 or G16 or G20 xxx which we need. I am a Lennox tech and so is Marty and the other guys are good too. See if she can get it for you from inside the door where the burners are on left or right side. You are getting part voltage at the fan or limit control which is a normal reading. Sounds like the fan relay is the culprit. Get the model # and we can narrow it down.

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Old 07-14-2010, 09:12 PM   #3
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Blower Motor Won't Run


Limit and ignition control come from W not G. Jumper R and G then check voltage to the motor. No high voltage then it's the circuit board, yes high voltage then it's the motor.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:22 PM   #4
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Depends on the furnace. The old G8s we used to convert to add on fan relays etc for 2 speed operation and shoot 24 volts thru the fan/limit switch and seperate the limit in it. (need to be an old school fart like me to remember those).Just guessing where he was poking around. Sounds like a 80% efficient ??? G16 maybe.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:45 PM   #5
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On the Reclaimer 80, outside of the unit that sits on top of the furnace is C26-31-1.

GYUA60-E3N in on the inside right side, near the burners and is for the 'forced air furnace'.

The Outside AC unit is HS29-261-1P.

Also I forgot to mention I tested the run capacitor, which the 'packaging' says 7.5 mf, however it tested out at 7.15 mf. Is this likely acceptable in HVAC?

As far as the jumper to provide voltage to the motor for testing, where would they be jumpered?

Thank you guys, I can not express my appreciation enough.

Cheers

Last edited by ldvoipeng; 07-17-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:06 PM   #6
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Blower Motor Won't Run


C26 is the AC coil #. Never heard of a GYUA-360 and I have been working on Lennox for 32 yrs. There are some different models in the US like G12s so it may be one that never went to Canada. Post a pic of it. The old units of that era may have a chocolate brown fan relay and the newer ones have a circuit board with relay built on to it. If you check at the gas valve in the AC mode you can get 15 volts as the secondary of the transformer is grounded and you get a feedback thru C of the gas valve. G should feed to a fan relay or a circuit board unless it is one I have never seen. Caps can lose 5% and be okay.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:34 PM   #7
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I hope this is ok, I am posting a link for the sake of the photos only. I just want you folks to be able to see it in as much detail as possible.

http://www.apex-broadband.com/photoA...d-e02c3a6454fd

There appears to be a fan relay, and two smaller ones, for heat and AC, however all of them are black.

If you would like any more just let me know and I will snap them tomorrow when I try testing the voltage to the motor.

Please note, the unit has been left apart for the repair, no it is NOT active or running.

Also it dawned on me, maybe its not a Lennox Furnace, but it is all enclosed inside a cabinet, labeled Reclaimer 80. The AC side however is certainly all Lennox. Maybe that's the problem? lol j/k.

Cheers!

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Old 07-15-2010, 12:12 PM   #8
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A bad safety switch on the furnace door can cause this. I can't tell you how many service call I've been on where I just adjusted the cover on the furnace and the blower came right on.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:40 PM   #9
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The safety switch is working ( appears ). While system is on, if door is ajar. it will turn off. Sorry for not including that previously.
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:41 PM   #10
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Blower Motor Won't Run


R - G jumpered gave virtually 0V reading to the motor, so the fan relay. Could anyone recommend a parts supplier or such?

Since it is the relay, and I am quite capable solderer, is is possible to source just the fan relay? Or just that upper daughterboard? Or the entire PCB

I am unable to locate a part number on the relay itself.

Thank you everyone for your responses and guidance.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:00 PM   #11
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Blower Motor Won't Run


Quote:
Originally Posted by ldvoipeng View Post
possible to source just the fan relay?
Finding an electrically equivalent relay should be easy. Mounting it mechanically may be a problem.

Try Hosfelt, Marlin Jones, Allelectronics [and Digikey or Jameco or Mouser if you're desperate].

The contacts have to handle a motor load at the motor's rated current and the coil resistance or coil current should be less than or equal to the existing relay.
Sometimes the manuf. will reveal the relay specs, intentionally or accidentally.
What are dimensions of the relay? Sometimes with just this volume measurement and one or two other specs you can come close enough.

No penalty for overdesign here, except price.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 07-16-2010 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:00 PM   #12
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After much neck wrenching, I managed a part number on the relay.

695-111
8937

is exactly how it is printed on a small white label.

It is 1 1/16th inch vertically, 13/16th of an inch horizontally, and approx. 1 1/4 inch tall.

Looking at the bottom of the PCB, there is a set of two solder joints, a small space and then a set of four solder joints. DPDT relay?

The label inside the Reclaimer 80 furnace, which contains the blower motor, states a motor of at least 1/4 HP and a measurement from the back of the motor is 5.5" in diameter.

I don't imagine the fan is anything more then 1/2 HP { yes, an assumption }, but the vents only service the basement and first floor.

So we are looking for a 24VAC - 120VAC DPDT relay? Amp ratings?

It's always nice coming to educated and informed decisions and conclusions.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldvoipeng View Post
After much neck wrenching, I managed a part number on the relay.

695-111
8937

is exactly how it is printed on a small white label.
1
It is 1 1/16th inch vertically, 13/16th of an inch horizontally, and approx. 1 1/4 inch tall.

Looking at the bottom of the PCB, there is a set of two solder joints, a small space and then a set of four solder joints. DPDT relay?
2
The label inside the Reclaimer 80 furnace, which contains the blower motor, states a motor of at least 1/4 HP and a measurement from the back of the motor is 5.5" in diameter.

I don't imagine the fan is anything more then 1/2 HP { yes, an assumption }, but the vents only service the basement and first floor.
3
So we are looking for a 24VAC - 120VAC DPDT relay? Amp ratings?

It's always nice coming to educated and informed decisions and conclusions.
4
1 http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

2 I'd say yes

3 Let's say 750 w due to the inefficiency of small motors so at 120v we need at least 7A motor load rating. Some catalogs publish the amp ratings for resistive load, motor load, tungsten load
The NEC has a table that gives you worst case motor current draws.

4 and you can still be surprised

Get the lowest coil current 24 vac coil you can find.
http://www.hosfelt.com/contents/en-us/d116.html

The volume of the new relay should be at least 1 cubic inch. Some relays are meant to be socketed so use a small iron if you're going to solder to the terminals and a needle-nose plier heat sink close to the case.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 07-16-2010 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:13 PM   #14
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The link page is precisely what I was looking at. Thank you all so very much! Truly a lifesaver, and saving me time sweating and maybe messing something up further! I applaud you all, for the time you take to help people in need!

I also commend you HVAC techs, as when your called, you go and sweat, or freeze to preform the repairs, else you wouldn;t have been called. At times I wonder how you all do it! Here Here!

Cheers!
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:24 PM   #15
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Just a follow up fellas.

The GYUA60-E3N part number for the furnace, after many hours of research is an old Comfort-Aire unit, that was manufactured for Heat Controller, Inc.

It seems HCI, simply makes the controller boards?

I did locate the board, the entire controller board, not just the IBM daughterboard, and was $203.

Still sourcing a relay, that will hopefully be a drop in solder job.

I just thought I would submit this info, for anyone who might run across the same issue.

Hurray! HCI used Aromat Relay number JC2A JE-B-DC24V-H24V.

Aromat was bought out by Panasonic, and changed the number to JC2AF-DC24V-F. $7.66 at Mouser and Newark Electronics.

This will be a drop in replacement, thanks again!

Jared

Many thanks again to everyone!

Cheers!

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Last edited by ldvoipeng; 07-17-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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