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Old 08-31-2009, 07:08 PM   #1
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bids on replacement systems


Need some advice. Replacing 10 year old air source heat pump system. Ques #1 I can get an r 22 system from contractor A complete for approx 2k cheaper than r410 heat pump system from Contractor B. Pros/Cons of r22 system? (Planning on moving in 5-7 years.

Ques #2 Contractor A (guy who put current system in 10 yr ago) has offered a system with 4 ton Goodman heat pump and Goodman 95% LP furnace backup for approx $6300. He tells me the local electric co-op will give $1000 rebate($250/ton) for the furnace.
Contractor B tells me his load calculation shows I only need 3ton heat pump(he says thats why my current unit failed prematurely because it is oversized.) He offers a Trane 3 ton heat pump system plus add an extra duct run to solve problem with end of run room temps for $5800.
Hard to figure which one is right on load and need for dual fuel system.

Contractor B has name in town for 55years. Contractor A is a solo guy in town maybe 15+ years
Contractor A wants 2/3 down and balance on completion. Contractor B wants nothing up front and total due within 10 days of completion. Contractor B Strong rep in town Offers Trane system
Contractor A Goodman brand system.

I know I've thrown a number of variable out there but I'd appreciate anyones thoughts on any of these issues.I need to decide soon since I have a non-functioning system now.

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Old 08-31-2009, 07:16 PM   #2
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Just my $.02

Just three things

1. Go with R-410a, R-22 is going away and equiptment production has already stopped.

2. Check warranty. Most 22 systems come with 5 yrs and 410a comes with 10 yr. Trane has a 10 yr warr when you register on the web site

3. And.....Goodman SUCKS. I wouldn't put a goodman in my dogs dog-house

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Old 08-31-2009, 08:05 PM   #3
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I gather from what you are saying is at no cost or contractor reputation would
Goodman be a consideration? Thankds , Deej
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:08 PM   #4
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I don't think you'll save anything on the R22 system. First leak and you'll be even! Based on what you've said, I get a better "warm and fuzzy" with contractor B.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:51 PM   #5
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I'd go with the R-22 system since you'll be moving in 5-7 years. (which is about the warranty you were quoted).

If people are so worried about R-22 just go on Ebay and buy a jug for about $200. Stash it in the garage. A 30 lb jug will be enough replenish nearly 2-3 complete leaks. (unlikely)

And if the jug remains full after the system wears out and gets replaced then sell it for the going rate and take a vacation of your windfall profit.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:57 PM   #6
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And on that sixth year when it may be out of warranty and the compressor quits.....Whats that sound....Cha..Ching

Make sure you check your warranties before deciding
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hennyh View Post
If people are so worried about R-22 just go on Ebay and buy a jug for about $200. Stash it in the garage. A 30 lb jug will be enough replenish nearly 2-3 complete leaks. (unlikely)
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/title6/608/608fact.html
"Restrict the sale of refrigerant to certified technicians."

Freon markups by HVAC installers are obscene.
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:01 AM   #8
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Take the rebate out of the equation.

The larger/oversized unit, will cost you more to operate.
And, running it on an undersized duct system, can shorten its life span. Whcih means you could nd up having to get another new system. Before you sell your house.
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:23 AM   #9
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Thanks to all. Great info. I think I'll be going with the 3 ton Trane system. Thank goodness this all went down when it's been unseasonably cool this week.
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:31 AM   #10
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Its good that someone did a load calc. If indeed you were oversized that could have led do your current systems early demise. Oversizing cost more to install, operate and cuts longevity due to short-cycling. If you have to be grossly wrong-sized that's the worst.

How did the system appear to cool? On your warmer days about how many times per hour would the unit run? How was its humidty control (assuming you live in a local where humidity is a problem)?

Perhaps a few more quotes are in order, making sure they each perform a load calc. Ask to see the numbers and post back with any questions. Ask to see Contractor B's number to verify he did not assume you have a tighter house than you do, or estimated living volume wrong, etc.

With a 5-7 year time horizon you will not get your money back on any added bells or whisles such as higher SEER units. Keep it simple.

Last edited by dac122; 09-01-2009 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:43 AM   #11
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Thanks dac122. Every point you made mirrors exactly the statements Contractor B made to me. His load calc was made taking into acct measurements of duct size,vent size and number, window type. eave sizes and direction house faces. He thought Contrator A's load calc must have been based on sq footage only.
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deejclow View Post
Thanks dac122. Every point you made mirrors exactly the statements Contractor B made to me. His load calc was made taking into acct measurements of duct size,vent size and number, window type. eave sizes and direction house faces. He thought Contrator A's load calc must have been based on sq footage only.
Not to defend Contractor A but if you already have an existing system then you have some idea how that tonnage works in your dwelling. But if the system had issues now is the time to address those by diagnosing via load calc (aka Manual J) and ductwork remediation via Manual D.

This will be a pricey endeavor however you slice it - and one in which you will not get your ROI back. So proceed with caution.

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