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-   -   baseboard sounds like colorado rapids flowing (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/baseboard-sounds-like-colorado-rapids-flowing-35028/)

mynd66 01-03-2009 10:17 PM

baseboard sounds like colorado rapids flowing
 
For the first time with help from a friend I finally finished running baseboard heat through a second floor apartment. Also we hooked up a new hot water boiler. I tried to bleed it today and I'm not sure if I did it properly.

Here is my boiler info:
Utica DV-B hotwater direct vent 50,000BTU
50' of baseboard element


I know there are a few ways to connect all of the components maybe I screwed that up but I did LOTS of research and asking questions so I hope thats not the case: I connected a garden hose on the return side.... Starting from the boiler--return pipe comes out to a water spicket-- 90's up to low water cut off-- to circulator pump -- to a 1/4 turn shut off valve which was in the "off" position-- then up to another water spicket (open) where I attached my garden hose. Now starting from the feed going toward the boiler-- to a valve which was open-- goes to the back flow preventer-- goes to pressure regultor-- to expansion tank-- to Can vent-- then Tee's to the boiler/supply.

To purge/bleed whatever you call it I did this: The return side water spicket with garden hose is open. Return side valve below the garden hose (closer to boiler) is off. On the feed side... The valve is open letting water into the feed. Pressure regulator lever is in the vertical position. So now I put the other end of the garden hose in a bucket and let the water run till there were no bubbles (10 min).

After I felt all of the air was out of the system I disconnected the garden hose and shut the spicket off. At the same time I lowered the lever to the pressure regulator. Then I opened the valve on the return side to boiler. Now I fired this baby up and after about 15-25 min I have 20 PSI and about 200-220 degrees. I went upstairs and didnt feel like too much heat was coming out of the baseboard and definitley sounded like a river was flowing through the pipes.

I didn't leave the boiler on for more than an hour and I repeated this process three times. Maybe it was a little better on the third (maybe). This is my first time doing all of this I'm not a plumber but I had help from my friend who is. This was his first un-supervised boiler installation so we were just pretty much taking it one step at a time. Just trying to get some feedback here I know there are alot of people whos been there done that. Thanks in advance. -Ray

biggles 01-03-2009 10:26 PM

you have a RED inline water regulator set for 12lbs.....just shut the boiler and circulator off,and bleed from the highest point of the system the reg will feed in the water as you bleed pushing the air out.

mynd66 01-03-2009 10:28 PM

Ok thanks biggles I have to solder in a bleeder valve, somehow I thought I didnt need one.

biggles 01-03-2009 10:52 PM

if it is a single zone system anyplace above the boiler. if your running 2 floors the 2nd floor level install will bleed the whole show.if you want to do one on each level no big deal either.the using of the hose to fill the system is that it is unregulated water pressure directly from the town pumps:huh:..then when you shut off the water into the boiler you have that pressure COLD then you heat it to 200F and start popping the relief?:eek: at 30 PSI.good luck

mynd66 01-03-2009 11:14 PM

Its single zone, boiler is in the basement running only the second floor baseboard.
I also made sure pressure was down before I turned it on. It didnt really build up much pressure cause I had the return open letting the water flow through the garden hose while the pressure regulator was open. After I closed the regulator and took the hose off and fired up.

mynd66 01-04-2009 02:06 PM

Nothing open today ( I live in bergen co. NJ). I wanted to get the bleeder so I can solder it in upstairs. My friend still swears that you don't NEED the bleeder to get the air out. I figured it won't hurt and it takes two seconds to put in.

beenthere 01-04-2009 09:01 PM

It takes a lot of water pressure, or velocity to force water down from the seconf floor.

You may not be able to feed enough water to purge it properly.

Installing a couple bleeders always makes it easier to get the air out.

mynd66 01-05-2009 10:19 PM

I installed a bleeder at the furthest point from the boiler. I upped the pressure to 20psi. It still sounds like a river through every room. I blead it for like 20 min today, no air.

Also the heat sucks, I had installed more element than recomended in every room. It is still below 67', its only 50' of element. The boiler is 50,000BTU, more than enough. I had the thing cranking non-stop for 2 hours. It was just a little warm despite the fact that the boiler was constantly running. I don't know where to go from here, I got this far and don't want to give up. Anything else I can do?

beenthere 01-06-2009 12:19 AM

Is your element, all a straight run.
Or does it go under the floor at any points, to get to the next room.
If it goes under the floor any where.
Then you need to add a bleeder to each element that has its piping coming from under the floor.

With teh amount of air noise your describing. It sounds like you tried to do your original purge with just the pressure that the autofeed puts in, without the manual feed valve being opened.

Thats doesn't work very well on second floor systems.

mynd66 01-06-2009 09:46 PM

Hey thanks for your advice beenthere. I've been losing my mind. The pipes goes up from the basement to one baseboard on the first floor then strait up to the second floor. On the second floor they are all on the outside wall on the same elevation, it does not go into the floor. There are a couple spots where I went 90 down and then 90 over to compensate for a transition in floor from room to room.

Someone mentioned that my boiler is undersized. I went through a lot to verify that I sized everything up. I even threw an extra foot of baseboard in every room. I have a total of 50' of element. Aparently one foot of element is roughly 6-700 BTU. My boiler is rated for 50,000. Even if it were 1000 BTU/foot I should be ok.

Like you said I must have been bleeding the system wrong. I thought eventually the air would work its way out. I had the bleeder open for over 20 min and thats after I purged the system. I think I may be purging it wrong. If I can't figure this out I may need to get a pro to check it out. I'm pressed for time, its my first house (2fam) and I need to get a tenant up there. Thanks again.
-Ray

beenthere 01-06-2009 09:55 PM

You may need to add bleeders to the other baseboards.

Those ells for changing to match the floor elevations, are causing air traps in thos baseboards.


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