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Old 08-24-2010, 10:37 AM   #1
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I am going to recharge my Magic Pak. I found the leak and repaired it. How many pounds of freon should I buy?

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:09 AM   #2
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Do you have your EPA Section 608 Universal Certification?

If you don't have the certification you won't be able to buy R410-A legally.

The nameplate should tell how many ounces need to be weighed in to charge the unit.

LOL...another smart-alec answer! here we go!!!

(No wonder that stuff costs so much! You have to actually know how to use it safely in order to buy it.)

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:12 AM   #3
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This should help answer any questions you have about becoming certified.

http://www.epatest.com/faq/R410A/
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:15 AM   #4
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Haha thanks I will check that out. I didn't see that but I will look again.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:17 AM   #5
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BTW...In order to do this right you'll need to have access to a set of refrigeration gauges for use with R410-A, a vacuum pump and a vacuum gauge. Not to mention a charging scale, accurate digital thermometer, and various other tools.

About $660.00 worth of stuff (if you buy it used), not counting the cost of the refrigerant.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:21 AM   #6
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Also thank you for the very enlightening information about having to be certified. You're right, I had no clue you had to be certified to handle that stuff! Now it all makes sense!
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:24 AM   #7
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yeah you do need some tools. i had to buy a set of gauges, vacuum pump and thermometer to do mine. but i wasn't measuring exact poundage, just looking for proper superheat and subcooling. i have no idea how much you need to buy and i'm not exactly sure you need a type II certification for R410-A. i oughta go down to my local shop and see if they'd sell it to me. i know you do need a type I certification for R-22, but the type II is just for higher pressures since the EPA doesn't require anything for R410-A as far as damage to the ozone goes.

btw, R-22 is freon and R-410A is puron.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabrk8r View Post
If you don't have the certification you won't be able to buy R410-A legally.
I have no doubt that you can buy the refrigerant. Whoever sells it to you without the card is committing a crime, but who cares...right?

From the EPA -
  1. Are you required to have a license or to be certified to handle and purchase R-410A?
    You are required to have an EPA Section 608 Type II or Universal certification license.
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Last edited by fabrk8r; 08-24-2010 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:56 AM   #9
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Fredzilla, after seeing your post in the Off Topic section, then seeing this......all I can say is
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratherbefishin' View Post
Fredzilla, after seeing your post in the Off Topic section, then seeing this......all I can say is
Someone gets it!
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:35 PM   #11
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i realize the whole "is it a reasonable cost" thing tends to get everyone's panties in a bunch. but as a DIY forum, a HUGE part of DIY is cost savings and knowing what you are getting for your money and whether or not it is worth it to learn how to do it yourself.

btw, for what it's worth, look up the price of a 30 lb. tank of whatever refrigerant you are interested in on e-bay. that'll give you a ballpark idea.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:46 PM   #12
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Not worth it, unless you own a 50 unit apartment complex...even then it's questionable if you'll get a return on your investment.

R410-A = $7.00 per lb. at wholesale cost (large quantity) Expect to pay about $20.00 per lb. for a small quantity.
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:27 PM   #13
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what do you mean not worth it? i spent about $400 on the basic necessary tools and i didn't buy the top-of-the-line most expensive stuff. that $400 on tools more than paid for itself on my first big HVAC job where i replaced my air handler. total cost for me for parts including refrigerant was less than $500. the best estimate i got was $1400. it was a no-brainer.

granted, i used a cheap vacuum pump that works with a good air compressor which i already own. plus, i was able to pump all the remaining refrigerant into the condenser so i didn't need an expensive evacuation system. still, if i ever needed an evac system, i could purchase one and still keep saving money.

the major savings comes on labor, and my labor is free, for me anyway.

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Old 08-24-2010, 01:40 PM   #14
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NitroNate, I congratulate you!

I still must hold my position that, for most homeowners, buying expensive tools that will probably be used only once every 20 years isn't a wise investment.

It's also questionable about how cost effective it is to install a high dollar piece of equipment yourself, at a minimal savings, and then have no warranty on the labor if it does need service. It's sometimes hard to get warranties on parts honored if it isn't installed by a licensed installer.

I'm all for homeowners doing all they can to save money....but in my career as an HVAC Tech/sheet metal mechanic I've seen a lot of people with the best of intentions ending up spending 2-3 times more $ on a A/C or furnace project in the long run than what it would have cost to have it done by someone with more experience.
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:48 PM   #15
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i agree that you really need to be aware of the skill required to do certain jobs. yes, HVAC is not easy and there are a lot of things that take years of experience to learn. believe me, without the internet and the great guys down at my local HVAC shop, i would not have been able to do the job right. i am an experienced DIY so i would not recommend this to the average homeowner either. however, if you do have the skill, you can save a lot of money, even with an investment in tools.

the other side to it is that i have a lot of DIY friends who i can pass my knowledge on to and loan my tools to and get free meals and beer out of it. so, things pay off in more ways than one

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