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Old 04-05-2014, 03:39 PM   #1
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


I have a solid red and green light on an American Standard Freedom 90 2 stage propane furnace model AUX100R948W5. Started with a noise coming from the inducer fan or motor. It was making a strange sound like leaves or a nest was coming in contact with the cage(?) in the housing. It also could have been water because of what I found. There were 3 condensate leaks, one above the inducer housing, one at the bottom of the inducer housing (installer did not have spring clamp installed properly) and on one of the hoses on the bottom near the lower right of the control board. Water definitely could have dripped on the circuit board. I tested the float in the pump to see if water may have been backing up in the condensate piping and/or inducer housing (if that is possible) but the pump worked. I will check the hoses for a clog tonight. A solid green and red means internal control failure, how do I start the trouble shooting process? I jumped out all of the limit switches and controls and tried the gas valve reset and checked the fuse but still no go. The rollout sensor was not tripped either. When you turn the power on and press the door panel switch it trips a relay(?) for half a second, the blower fan turns on(?) and then immediately shuts off and the 2 lights stay steady. Is there a way to diagnose which control is bad without changing parts out or assuming that the board is bad? Could a non working inducer motor cause this problem?

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Old 04-05-2014, 04:11 PM   #2
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


"Internal control failure" requires no troubleshooting..... replace the control board.

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Old 04-05-2014, 04:30 PM   #3
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


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Originally Posted by hvactech126 View Post
"Internal control failure" requires no troubleshooting..... replace the control board.
It's only the control board failure that gives you the red & green steady on? I think you are right, there was water on the side and bottom of the board, just want to be sure before I go for the $$. From what I read about a kit replacing the older board # maybe they relocate the board so that it's not right under the inducer condensate outlet. Should the condensate tube joint connections leak or is that a sign that water backed up due to a clog? I know they had a problem with leaks because they sent me a kit of rubber hoses and clamps to replace the clear ones that it came with the unit. I think that the noise that I heard was water in the inducer motor housing. Next, where is the best (cheapest) place to order the parts from? Thanks

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Old 04-06-2014, 02:17 AM   #4
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


Relocating your reasoning is more like it.

The board goes where it goes, design engineered. The install of the system is what is at fault.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:36 AM   #5
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


So you feel that everything that is designed by the factory is done the right way? And it's my reasoning that needs to be relocated?? If the board was not placed under the inducer condensate outlet it would still be working today. If the condensate hose system design did not clog, a known problem, many owners of these units would not be spending big bucks for repairs and families spending heat-less nights like we are. They already sent out a fix of their original hose design/material. The installer did make a mistake but the design is flawed in my opinion. Today there are more and more design flaws than ever before, the companies test these products out on the public and then modify the designs by the amount of complaints and problems that are reported to them. Between our cars and trucks, computers, appliances, cell phones and phone systems and many many other mechanical and electronic products it seems that we are fixing something every few weeks. If you ever saw who is designing these potentially dangerous appliances or the vehicles that you drive, you would be scared. Many houses have been burned down and people killed due to design flaws.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:45 AM   #6
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


If yours does not have it the later series of that furnace had/has a plastic shield over the top portion of the control board. It is where it should be even without the shield. The board should NEVER need that shield if the furnace is serviced properly every year. No leaks should happen unless a seal fails or something plugs up which those things are usually caught during annual maintenance and can be remedied before they cause a board failure.

In the end it is what it is..... Your board failed.... replace it....
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:24 PM   #7
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvactech126 View Post
If yours does not have it the later series of that furnace had/has a plastic shield over the top portion of the control board. It is where it should be even without the shield. The board should NEVER need that shield if the furnace is serviced properly every year. No leaks should happen unless a seal fails or something plugs up which those things are usually caught during annual maintenance and can be remedied before they cause a board failure.

In the end it is what it is..... Your board failed.... replace it....
It has the shield but the water made it's way to the right side of the board and ended up dripping from the bottom of the board. Again, even if the spring clamp was not positioned right if the drain was not above the board this would not have happened. I don't remember them cleaning or even checking the condensate system when they did the maintenance service. Why should a system be designed where it might need maintenance like that, maybe it should have used something smoother like PVC instead of rubber. If I didn't call them about the leaks I would still have the rock hard clear plastic hoses leaking all over the place. I'm sure some homeowners still have them. Not doing an annual maintenance shouldn't cause a board to short out...
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:36 PM   #8
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


NO type of drain is designed to never need maintenance. The furnace sits for 6 months of the year without any water running in those hoses.... what do you suppose grows in those drain hoses and traps? Algae for one and it then blocks the hoses and or traps which is why proper maintenance comes into play. The manual for your furnace even states that the furnace requires annual maintenance. Now, if your contractor is not doing PROPER maintenance then that is a discussion to have with them. It doesn't matter if it is PVC or rubber algae will still grow in either. I've seen those furnaces that are 20 years old that have the clear plastic and don't leak... probably because the homeowner's have had proper maintenance done every year. The board didn't short out it has water damage caused by lack of proper maintenance, IMO.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:39 PM   #9
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


The issue is where exactly to mount those boards. The furnaces are now down to 33" high and there is only one place to mount the board and that is by the fan. Most of these furnace are multiposition ( vert or horz or upside down use ) so the logistics of how they have to design the inducer fan and drain hoses is a HUGE issue. LOTS of time in the Summer AC drains plug up from lack of maintenance and overflow or as my Boss said (sheet happens) so the odd board gets water damaged. Nobody can prevent these things from happening. They could design the board to be totally sealed and waterproof but the price would rise 4-5X and nobody would pay that. Plus it needs to not overheat and the air from the fan keeps it cool. If it was sealed then other engineering problems develop.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:03 PM   #10
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


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The issue is where exactly to mount those boards. The furnaces are now down to 33" high and there is only one place to mount the board and that is by the fan. Most of these furnace are multiposition ( vert or horz or upside down use ) so the logistics of how they have to design the inducer fan and drain hoses is a HUGE issue. LOTS of time in the Summer AC drains plug up from lack of maintenance and overflow or as my Boss said (sheet happens) so the odd board gets water damaged. Nobody can prevent these things from happening. They could design the board to be totally sealed and waterproof but the price would rise 4-5X and nobody would pay that. Plus it needs to not overheat and the air from the fan keeps it cool. If it was sealed then other engineering problems develop.
It only needed to be over to the left by an inch and a half, I'm wondering why the replacement is a kit. It may have nothing to do with that, I'll find out. I understand, I'm 59 years young and my whole life have fixed (I use that term loosely) or repaired almost everything myself. It just seems that common sense has become not too common. Water and electricity don't mix, so condensate drains above expensive electrical equipment must have been designed by what my old friend calls "Pi Beta Kappas". Someday those plastic/rubber drain pipes are going to deteriorate and cause big problems, hopefully no one will get hurt. Thanks for all, guess I'm searching for a low price on a board...
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:27 PM   #11
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


The kit is an upgraded board and a new 120v igniter. They went to that because of problems with the 80v igniter.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:40 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hvactech126 View Post
The kit is an upgraded board and a new 120v igniter. They went to that because of problems with the 80v igniter.
Thanks, what's the new part number? I was going to call them tomorrow, I wanted to find out what the latest revision is.

Last edited by Kato; 04-06-2014 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:34 PM   #13
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


Looks like I was wrong about the igniter kit for your particular model.... the current board version is CNT05159 as far as I can find. Your furnace only has a variable speed inducer, not a VS blower. Yours uses a PSC blower which makes a difference.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:46 PM   #14
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvactech126 View Post
Looks like I was wrong about the igniter kit for your particular model.... the current board version is CNT05159 as far as I can find. Your furnace only has a variable speed inducer, not a VS blower. Yours uses a PSC blower which makes a difference.
Trane is saying that it is CNT04677, when I call their parts house it comes up as the CNT05159, when you go to purchase it the 05159 comes up as discontinued and CNT07134 replaces it....Problem is that I can't find any info on that # at all.

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Old 04-07-2014, 05:51 PM   #15
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American Standard Freedom 90 Solid Green & Red Troubleshooting Help


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Trane is saying that it is CNT04677, I think then it went to CNT04948, when I call their parts house it comes up as the CNT05159, when you go to purchase it the 05159 comes up as discontinued and CNT07134 replaces it....Problem is that I can't find any info on that # at all.
When I go to The White-Rogers, Emerson site it uses part #s like 50V60-507-90 (CNT-05159) but any part number that I search for gets 0 results.

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