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ludehawk 12-31-2008 01:02 AM

All the best equipment... Done Wrong?!?!
 
3 Attachment(s)
I'm a new poster to this forum, long time lurker.
I'm visiting my parents in Denver this week and would like some setting/installation help with all of the new HVAC equipment they had installed this year. I don't think it's used to its full potential, my mother is an air and water 'clean freak'. They are the most important things to your body, might as well make them the absolute best, right? Help me do that for my Mom!

Goods:
Comfortmaker Furnace 9MPV/Coil EDD4X24FA2/no clue on the AC as it's cold tonight =p
Cleaneffects Air Cleaner
Honeywell Truesteam
Honeywell IAQ
International Comfort UV Light (UVICA1LPA)

Install details:
Typical basement install, 15 y/o home.
PVC Intake/exhaust for furnace.
Fresh air intake/exhaust (8in vents) - see specific question later. Maybe picture?

Questions/Concerns:
What are the correct programming/jumpers for the furnace control for this setup? Wiring details?
What are the correct programming and/or recommendations for the IAQ? The UV light and cleaneffects are not wired into the IAQ control. I plan on fixing this, but would like recommendations. The TrueSteam is wired into the IAQ but the IAQ is just being used to control humidity in the house.
The Freshair vent has an 'zone' motor. I don't know what else to call it. It's the basic Honeywell fresh air intake control? It's wired to a 24v switch labeled on/off. Absolutely invaluable in it's current state (IMO!) - who wants to manually allow fresh air into the system.
Also, the refrigerant lines that run to the furnace from the ac are cold, condensing cold. To the point water drips off of the uninsulated line.
This isn't a heat pump setup, it's colorado!?!? I'm asking a question, kind of haha. The ac shouldn't be running, it's winter!
Also, there is another 'fresh air' type vent that runs parallel to the freshair vent attached to the air intake. This vent is open and pointed down towards the furnace. It's COLD! It's cold outside and it's allowing a draft around the furnace. What should I do? The furnace has PVC pipes running into it, i'm assuming one is an intake/one an exhaust. Should I cap that vent?

My Mom had all of the ductwork cleaned and then sealed by professionals. I personally think the sealing is a wise investment, for a DIY, not for the price they paid. BUT - the system is sealed.


I've attached some pictures to help. I'm here for just a few days and would really like to help my parents put there hard earned $ to use.

Thank you!

ludehawk 12-31-2008 01:13 AM

In the pictures, you can see that completely open exhaust vent. Its right next to the coil lines and PVC vent pipes.

THANKS!

integlikewhoa 12-31-2008 01:56 AM

You have alot of questions to be anwsered, and maybe someone could help with some anwsers. But you need to be a little more specific on sevral of them, in order for them to be anwsered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
Questions/Concerns:
What are the correct programming/jumpers for the furnace control for this setup? Wiring details?

This it to broad of Q.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
What are the correct programming and/or recommendations for the IAQ?

The programming is up to the user. Its pretty basic. It comes with alot of auto fetures and if connected it will setup for you. Grab the manual and go down the line of the options to turn on or off, But you'll find most things are done for you or up to the user, like backlight options and such. Outdoor temp sensor is auto. Hooking up the Humdifier you will have to turn on that option.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
The UV light and cleaneffects are not wired into the IAQ control. I plan on fixing this, but would like recommendations.

Go for it. Its not much different if its wired to the IAQ or not, just filter settings will be sent to the IAQ along with the lights on the front of the filter unit. Other then that the clean effects works the same. Same with the UV light. It works connected to the IAQ or not. The IAQ has a built in timmer that you set to hours of use or # days to auto tell you to change the filter or replace the uv bulb. But if connected to the IAQ the IAQ can be set to let the UV and Clean effects tell the IAQ when to replace them. Either way same thing happens just depends on which componet do you want to count down the time?
Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
The TrueSteam is wired into the IAQ but the IAQ is just being used to control humidity in the house.

Thats fine. Thats what the IAQ is for. Should also handle an outside temp, inside temp, heating, cooling and a few other basics. The IAQ is only a thermostate.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
The Freshair vent has an 'zone' motor. I don't know what else to call it. It's the basic Honeywell fresh air intake control? It's wired to a 24v switch labeled on/off. Absolutely invaluable in it's current state (IMO!) - who wants to manually allow fresh air into the system.

Thats how all are wired. Its probley a small ARD6 like I also have. Its used to pull in fresh air anytime the unit is running. It doesnt pull much, but enough to bring in fresh air. A house that is tightly sealed needs to bring in a bit of fresh air to mix things up a bit.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
Also, the refrigerant lines that run to the furnace from the ac are cold, condensing cold. To the point water drips off of the uninsulated line.
This isn't a heat pump setup, it's colorado!?!? I'm asking a question, kind of haha. The ac shouldn't be running, it's winter!

The units probley a heatpump, with the heater as a back up or emergency heat.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204706)
Also, there is another 'fresh air' type vent that runs parallel to the freshair vent attached to the air intake. This vent is open and pointed down towards the furnace. It's COLD! It's cold outside and it's allowing a draft around the furnace. What should I do? The furnace has PVC pipes running into it, i'm assuming one is an intake/one an exhaust. Should I cap that vent?

You are correct on the to white PVC lines being intake and exhaust. Im not sure which fresh air vent your talking about. Can you show some pics of it. Whats it connected to?


Hope this helps a bit, And Im sure some others can help you out better.

beenthere 12-31-2008 07:10 AM

The 6" pipe is a combustion air intake for the water heater(probably only needed a 4").

The fresh air intake for the house should be wired to the IAQ's vent terminals.

The UV light, can be used as either a 24/7 on, or only on when the blower runs.
Generally if its mounted in the return, it only needs to come on when teh blower runs.
If mounted over the A/C coil, it sould be on 24/7.

Although its good to use the IAQ thermostat to turn on the humidifier. The Truesteam, should be wired to control the blower. It needs the blower to do a post purge after the humidity call is done.
Should also have the IAQ's outdoor thermostat installed, if its not.

The lines having condensate on them, is most likelt caused by liquid migration.
Just insulate them.

ludehawk 12-31-2008 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
This it to broad of Q.

I'll elaborate. I have a Trane system and Trane variable speed furnaces have dehumidifier controls, two stage furnace settings, additional jumpers, things like that. I have no clue on this setup and would like all of the features available to be utilized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
The programming is up to the user. Its pretty basic. It comes with alot of auto fetures and if connected it will setup for you. Grab the manual and go down the line of the options to turn on or off, But you'll find most things are done for you or up to the user, like backlight options and such. Outdoor temp sensor is auto. Hooking up the Humdifier you will have to turn on that option.

I have an IAQ at home, but don't have all of these fancy add ons. I wasn't sure what the proper settings for having an outside air vent in the middle of winter were. Especially in Colorado. Also, the outside temperature sensor is not installed. This house gets a lot of condensation on the inside of the windows and there is an IAQ setting for that. I'm not sure how to use it. Any help or guidance would be great. The outdoor sensor is $20 so i'm planning on installing it if I get time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
Go for it. Its not much different if its wired to the IAQ or not, just filter settings will be sent to the IAQ along with the lights on the front of the filter unit. Other then that the clean effects works the same. Same with the UV light. It works connected to the IAQ or not. The IAQ has a built in timmer that you set to hours of use or # days to auto tell you to change the filter or replace the uv bulb. But if connected to the IAQ the IAQ can be set to let the UV and Clean effects tell the IAQ when to replace them. Either way same thing happens just depends on which componet do you want to count down the time?

The UV light is located on the air intake prefilter. It's just plugged into a 120v outlet. I don't see any relay controls on this filter. Is it on the UV light? The IAQ UV light feature is set just to have a day countdown. The light is on 24/7. I would like it to just be on with the fan/system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
Thats fine. Thats what the IAQ is for. Should also handle an outside temp, inside temp, heating, cooling and a few other basics. The IAQ is only a thermostate.

The IAQ does control all of the basics, but it also controls the coordination of such devices. The house needs humidity. The IAQ will turn on the blower, 1st stage if it's heating, turn on the humidifier and shut everything off as needed. The IAQ can control air quaility... the system hasn't run in 6 hours. It'll turn on to run some air through the filter and 'freshen' the air with outside air. I'm in no way trying to educate you, just explaining what i'd like to be setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
Thats how all are wired. Its probley a small ARD6 like I also have. Its used to pull in fresh air anytime the unit is running. It doesnt pull much, but enough to bring in fresh air. A house that is tightly sealed needs to bring in a bit of fresh air to mix things up a bit.

It is a simple zone control motor. Maybe an ard6 but the vent is not cut around it for the ard6's metal housing. It's just installed inline/inside of the vent. I would like it hooked up to the IAQ. But what settings would be optimal for Colorado? What are the most energy efficient settings? Best air quality setting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
The units probley a heatpump, with the heater as a back up or emergency heat.

I'm sorry, it's not a heatpump. It's a traditional seperate system with multiple heating and cooling stages. It turns out my mom was really hot after getting in the shower and turned the AC on! But I bet that condensation is horrible during the summer/maybe not. But I'll look into insulating that line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by integlikewhoa (Post 204712)
Hope this helps a bit, And Im sure some others can help you out better.

You've confirmed what I was thinking as far as getting everything wired together, but would like help with the optimal settings of the IAQ and making sure everything is used correctly.

Thank you!

integlikewhoa 12-31-2008 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
I'll elaborate. I have a Trane system and Trane variable speed furnaces have dehumidifier controls, two stage furnace settings, additional jumpers, things like that. I have no clue on this setup and would like all of the features available to be utilized.

I also have a Trane XV95 2 stage variable speed heater. They have DIP switchs mostly for air flow ratings for each stage (which I left all at normal) of heating and cooling. We need to see a manual for this. The IAQ will control fan stage for humidity when it kicks on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
I have an IAQ at home, but don't have all of these fancy add ons. I wasn't sure what the proper settings for having an outside air vent in the middle of winter were. Especially in Colorado. Also, the outside temperature sensor is not installed. This house gets a lot of condensation on the inside of the windows and there is an IAQ setting for that. I'm not sure how to use it. Any help or guidance would be great. The outdoor sensor is $20 so i'm planning on installing it if I get time.

Beenthere, can he just hook the 2 wires from the vent to the 2 vent terminals on the IAQ? Doesnt one of the wires come from the heater? Or is this a different setup?


Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
The UV light is located on the air intake prefilter. It's just plugged into a 120v outlet. I don't see any relay controls on this filter. Is it on the UV light? The IAQ UV light feature is set just to have a day countdown. The light is on 24/7. I would like it to just be on with the fan/system.

I looked for your install manual for the UV lights. And it says
"OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE
Lamps should operate all the time. It is not recommended to
cycle the lamps by time clock or fan operation."
Heres the link to the manual http://icpindexing.mqgroup.com/docum...1601110101.pdf
So you do not need or will be able to install this threw the IAQ. I have a honeywell smart lamp. These have an air flow sensor built into the back of them, so they turn on with air flowing and they turn off 40 min after the stop of air flow, or if they are hooked up to a IAQ they will be controled by that and tell the IAQ when to change the filter. These have a 3 wire connection for the IAQ along with the 110v plug for power.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
The IAQ does control all of the basics, but it also controls the coordination of such devices. The house needs humidity. The IAQ will turn on the blower, 1st stage if it's heating, turn on the humidifier and shut everything off as needed. The IAQ can control air quaility... the system hasn't run in 6 hours. It'll turn on to run some air through the filter and 'freshen' the air with outside air. I'm in no way trying to educate you, just explaining what i'd like to be setup.

You will need an outdoor temp sensor installed before the IAQ will control humidity. Is there a seperate humistat to control the TrueSteam now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
The IAQ can control air quaility, I'm in no way trying to educate you, just explaining what i'd like to be setup

I think your over analizing it a bit. Indoor air quailty Is the temp, humidity, and a airfilter thats it. You can only control what you have a sensor for. And you only have a sensor for temp and humidity.The IAQ can check botht he temp and humidity and adjust acording to the sensors. Everything else just runs whent he units running or on a timer, Like the UV filter, there is no sensor to see if the unit needs to run time or less. Theres no air born bactiera sensor to see when it should kick on. Its just on when the units running. Same with the fresh air vent. It kicks it open any time the units running to just mix in a bit of fresh air with the circulated air. Theres no sensor inside the house telling you the house needs fresh air, open the vent and run only the fresh air. Plus the fresh air vent is very small it cant supply all the air for the unit, just enough to mix in some fresh air while its running.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
It is a simple zone control motor. Maybe an ard6 but the vent is not cut around it for the ard6's metal housing. It's just installed inline/inside of the vent. I would like it hooked up to the IAQ. But what settings would be optimal for Colorado? What are the most energy efficient settings? Best air quality setting.

Do you have a pic. If its a 2 wire motor that springs close when off and when 24v is applied it opens then you dont have much settings. Theres no energy efficient setting. Or best air quailty setting. Plug it in, it opens when the units running and closes to stop unwated outside air flow when the units off. If you really wanted a smarter setup you should have gotten something like this. http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/UI/Pages/Catalog/ComponentCategory.aspx?Catalog=Homes&Category=Ener gy+Recovery+Ventilator_34163&ChannelID={2EB2F178-20ED-44E0-97FB-CCFB4218DD64}



Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
I'm sorry, it's not a heatpump. It's a traditional seperate system with multiple heating and cooling stages. It turns out my mom was really hot after getting in the shower and turned the AC on! But I bet that condensation is horrible during the summer/maybe not. But I'll look into insulating that line.

Haveing the a/c on would explain it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ludehawk (Post 204890)
You've confirmed what I was thinking as far as getting everything wired together, but would like help with the optimal settings of the IAQ and making sure everything is used correctly.

Just read the IAQ installers manual, and you can see what options you can change to meet what you want.
Heres the manual. http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...69-1816EFS.pdf
Like I said tho I think your expeting to much from what you have.

integlikewhoa 12-31-2008 01:26 PM

Page 6 of 24 on the IAQ setup manual I linked above. It says this.

"Ventilation Control (Setup Functions 0400-0406): If the system includes a self-powered ventilation unit (Function 0400), the home can be ventilated on demand, or ventilated automatically if high humidity is detected while in heating mode (Function 0406)."

This shows if the system includes a self-powered ventilation unit (function 0400). A open and close damper is not a self-powered ventilation unit. A self-powered ventilation unit is the $2,000-$3,000 units I linked above, not a 80-120.00 power damper. So if you turn off function 0400 since you don't have it you can not access any of the ventilation functions.(which is the rest of the 0400 section down to 0500).

Those units also match the air temp coming in and going out to conserve energy. Which would be great for you.

integlikewhoa 12-31-2008 01:40 PM

Here is the furnace manual. http://icpindexing.mqgroup.com/docum...4001201202.pdf
Page 49 of 60 shows the dip switch settings. They are for CFM settings. Also there was 1 or 2 for a single or dual stage thermostat. I think your good with the switchs tho, I wouldn't change them unless you had an air flow problem you were trying to fix. Then you might resort to these unless you had a duct problem.

beenthere 12-31-2008 04:22 PM

He needs to provide 24 volts for the damper.

If the uses the furnaces transformer.
He has to run a jumper wire from the RC terminal of the EIM to the Vent 1 Of the EIM.
Rhen run a wire from the EIM's Vent 2 terminal to the damper motor.
And then hook the other wire of the damper motor to either the furnaces Common, or the EIM's common.


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