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Old 07-29-2012, 06:00 PM   #46
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


BTW, the manual I have on the Payne PH10 shows a scroll compressor for the model -048 (four ton) and -060 (five ton). No mention is made of the -030 (2.5 ton) that I have. I have not found a more pertinent manual.

If this unit has a scroll compressor does it make any difference in the how the readings are interpreted. My guess is 'no'.

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Old 07-29-2012, 06:03 PM   #47
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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the op should if he has the equiptment remove all freon...vac the system down weigh in the correct charge ....and start from there.....I think there is to many unanswered questions and reading don't add up... safest way ...
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You should recover the entire charge. And weight it back in.

I'm heading in that direction, but some equipment I need will not be here for a few days.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:06 PM   #48
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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Originally Posted by psehorne View Post
Thanks to all of you for your input.

My hangar was burglarized a few months ago. One of the things that was taken was my Promax RG5000. I had not replaced it until today. I have one that will ship to me tomorrow, but I won't have it for several days. So I can't entirely purge the system with what I have on hand. But I can probably bleed it down a bit.
you could try it ...bleed it where???...safest bet recover freon..vac it down weigh in charge.....start over
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #49
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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Originally Posted by ben's plumbing View Post
...bleed it where???..
I'm assuming that without a recovery vacuum pump I can still get some refrigerant to flow into my recovery tank (which is totally empty at present) just from the high head pressure. Is this just wishful thinking?
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:39 PM   #50
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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Originally Posted by turnermech View Post
I think your wet buld reading is unaccurate some how.
To determine wet-bulb:
  1. I meaure the temperature of the air going into the evaporator (at the cold air return vent. I haven't seen in difference here than at the evaporator filter about six foot away) with a Fluke thermocouple thermometer that I trust.
  2. I measure the relative humidity with two analog/dial hygrometers. Don't know how accurate they are, but they agree within a % or so. (I have a digital tool ordered.)
  3. I use these numbers and the barometric pressure reading obtained by calling the local airport ASOS number to input on the form at http://easycalculation.com/weather/d...calculator.php
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:41 PM   #51
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


When I supect overcharged system (not saying that is it as others may disagree but that would be my guess without being there) I purge into reclaim cylinder from liq line. due it in short burst. allow at least 5 min between burst may be even 10 to be sure. check the system after waiting the 5/10 min. repeat the procedure unit your suction starts to fall. If you are overcharged you will let a lot out any suction will remain the same or near the same. you will see the high pressure drop as you let it out. Once you bring the low side down past where it should be you can then charge the system. Forget the chart as I think you wet buld is off somehow. I also supect you have a txv but you say you don't and I am not there. A piston metering device would typically increase the suction pressure as the discharge pressure increased. I think you are extreemly overcharged and your indoor coil is all liq vs gas. Once you are sure your charge is low then begain recharging slowly. Get the super heat to 8 to 12.
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:44 PM   #52
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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Originally Posted by psehorne View Post
To determine wet-bulb:
  1. I meaure the temperature of the air going into the evaporator (at the cold air return vent. I haven't seen in difference here than at the evaporator filter about six foot away) with a Fluke thermocouple thermometer that I trust.
  2. I measure the relative humidity with two analog/dial hygrometers. Don't know how accurate they are, but they agree within a % or so. (I have a digital tool ordered.)
  3. I use these numbers and the barometric pressure reading obtained by calling the local airport ASOS number to input on the form at http://easycalculation.com/weather/d...calculator.php
try to wrap your same theromocouple with wet rag and stick it in the return see what you get that way
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:27 PM   #53
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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Originally Posted by psehorne View Post
BTW, the manual I have on the Payne PH10 shows a scroll compressor for the model -048 (four ton) and -060 (five ton). No mention is made of the -030 (2.5 ton) that I have. I have not found a more pertinent manual.

If this unit has a scroll compressor does it make any difference in the how the readings are interpreted. My guess is 'no'.
I found a manual on the net that provides information on the -030. It has a reciprocating compressor, not scroll.

Under Optional Equipment it list
  • TXV Kits (Hard Shutoff)
  • TXV Kits (RPB)
I am sure this unit has no optional equipment. It did not even come with a starting capacitor which the manual says is required if TXV is installed.

Under Metering Devices the manual also list Indoor Piston Size and Outdoor Piston Size.

Conclusion:
Metering is by piston and compressor is reciprocating.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:38 PM   #54
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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I'm assuming that without a recovery vacuum pump I can still get some refrigerant to flow into my recovery tank (which is totally empty at present) just from the high head pressure. Is this just wishful thinking?
exactly how to do it. use the liq line service port. (proably what you mean by high head pressure port). you could actually empty nearly the whole thing this way.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:24 PM   #55
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


Use a bathroom sale.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #56
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


Still no luck, huh? Sucks. Best bet would be what these guys have been saying, recover and weigh in charge. What is the system charge? It should say on the service panel.

And btw, that weigh in charge is good for the compressor, about 15' of line set and the evaporator. Don't be surprised if you have to add to that weight as you will most likely have to with a longer line set. You'll be dealing with superheat again.

If it were me I'd simply pump the system down, remove shraeder cores, shoot some nitrogen into the line by way of ONE side, either low or high and again, with the shraeder cores removed, and watch the other side's needle to make sure it comes up as well. Then close off the open side and open the other and back and forth to make sure there is no restriction. In other words, adding through one side the other side should rise as well. If not or noticeably too slow, restriction.

Let the nitrogen sit in there for about ten minutes to make sure there aren't any leaks which I wouldn't believe there to be at this point but still...then I'd remove the hoses from both valves and let the nitrogen fly out (taking any possible debri with it), put back in the shraeder cores, vacuum, open valves, turn system on and see what happens.

Then if still the same is when I'd get to recovering and weighing in the charge. I as well don't believe it to be overcharged but rather a restriction at this point.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:37 PM   #57
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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Use a bathroom sale.
You didn't tell me that, you said refrigerant scale. That was like over $200.00.

Hmmff.

Best dang tool I've purchased, well worth every cent.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:39 PM   #58
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You didn't tell me that, you said refrigerant scale. That was like over $200.00.

Hmmff.

Best dang tool I've purchased, well worth every cent.
LOL... Sometimes you gotta improvise.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:22 PM   #59
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


I would guess a digital bathroom scale would be fairly cheap. And pretty good in a pinch. I was going to suggest a bathroom scale if he asked.

if you pump it all down in your empty reclaim tank weight it empty and after you pump it into the tank. that will tell you if you are overcharged and by how much. If you are not overcharged look for other problem before recharging with the scale.

let us know the amount you take out if you attempt to remve all you can by pumping the refrigeant out with your compressor through the liq line.

Last edited by turnermech; 07-29-2012 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:38 PM   #60
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Adding R-22 increases suction temperature???


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I would guess a digital bathroom scale would be fairly cheap. And pretty good in a pinch. I was going to suggest a bathroom scale if he asked.
I have digital bathroom scale but also have a Ohaus dual beam balance that goes to ~45 lbs (20+ kilos), and it is very accurate.

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