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Old 10-09-2008, 10:26 PM   #1
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Is it actually cheaper to.......???????


Something i have been trying to investigate and become knowledged of' Is it actually cheaper to to keep the unit(hvac) at one set temperature, then it is to have it up and down (roller coaster effect) I ask this cause i have claimed this to be true for yrs now but never actually knew of it to be true or not?

Now during this past summer i had convinced the wife to leave the thermostat set and do not touch it ever again for any reason that it is cheaper to keep it at one set temp, then roller-coasting it! Our cooling cost last yr-07 was $190-230 mnth(total electric: old hvac unit) This yr with the unit set and nevr touching it for any reason i thought to prove my hypothesis to be correct, cause our electric costs this past season had ran us $125.-$140. now is this just a coincidence or is this true?

Now to follow up this same question, will this same method of cost savings apply with the new unit, during the winter for heating purposes?

This house is super insulated, and since we have been without heat or air for the past week i was able to identify something that has happened this, while this week was very cold at night(46degrees the lowest) i would awaken with it just as cold inside as outside, so for instance the morning when i woke up to 46degrees on the thermometer, it remained 46 degrees inside till about 130 pm when it rose to 65 at a slow gradual climb, while the outside temperature was 72? I can only assume this would be a great contribution to a great insulation job, so if the insulation does this in this scenario, will or does it work the opppiste manner when we are heating an dcooling our house?
Sorry for so many questions in one post, but not wanting to hijack someone elses thread i figured i would do better to keep my questions and comments in my own threads! As hijacking someone elses threads are not very nice thing to do!

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Old 10-09-2008, 10:54 PM   #2
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Is it actually cheaper to.......???????


Don't go by the total bill. Go by KWH or therms or whatever you have for heating or cooling.

Prices go up and down and the dollar amount isn't dependable.

According to the experts letting the temperature drop at night is going to save you money. I can't verify that so I can't say for sure.

We let our temperature drop to 50 at night. If we are gone we let it drop to 45.

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Old 10-09-2008, 11:01 PM   #3
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Don't go by the total bill. Go by KWH or therms or whatever you have for heating or cooling.

Prices go up and down and the dollar amount isn't dependable.

According to the experts letting the temperature drop at night is going to save you money. I can't verify that so I can't say for sure.

We let our temperature drop to 50 at night. If we are gone we let it drop to 45.
Thank you for taking the time to help educate me, and assist in my quest for knowledge! I will continue to monitor this thread to see what other imputs i can get from others, but in the meantime i am going to dig out old bills and research the kw/h rate changes from last yr to this yr!
Wife an di have come to an agreement on the temperature thing it has to be warm in the house when she wakes up, period no questions asked about it, she will divorce me if she ever wakes in a house that cold in the morning! We have agreed on 68 winter temp, and 72 summer temp no exceptions. And divorce papers will be issued if she ever awakens at 46degrees in her house again. And i am sure she aint playing!
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:58 PM   #4
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All the programmable energy saving thermostats would suggest the opposite of your therory of keeping it at one temp. Programmable thermostats are supposed to pay for themselves in the first year.

IIRC, for the heating season, 62 at night, 70 for wake up hours, 62 while at work and again to 70 living hours. Personally, we usually substitute those 70s to 68.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:05 AM   #5
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Large fluctuations in temperature will cost you money. You'll use more energy getting back to temperature than you would by staying there.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:13 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
All the programmable energy saving thermostats would suggest the opposite of your therory of keeping it at one temp. Programmable thermostats are supposed to pay for themselves in the first year.

IIRC, for the heating season, 62 at night, 70 for wake up hours, 62 while at work and again to 70 living hours. Personally, we usually substitute those 70s to 68.
I currently am running the 'Honeywell, CT8775C4447(0528) non programmable, thermostat. And it did great with the old unit, and i have tested quite often (compared to a mercury thermometer)to keep up with its accuracy to ensure it is keeping and maintaining the accurate temps in the house. but with this knowledge i just might seriously consider getting a programmable thermostat.
Any suggestions(programmable stats) for me to start researching as this is seriously considered an option to keep costs to the lowest level i can keep them at! So hit me up with thermostats that are programmable, and i will continue the reasearch to see if it is true or not weather they work, but i will still be researching to see if a stable constant tempurature is cheaper then flexible(roller-coaster) temperature!
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Last edited by MrShadetree0222; 10-10-2008 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Large fluctuations in temperature will cost you money. You'll use more energy getting back to temperature than you would by staying there.
See thats exactly my theory, with the old unit(improperly sized and regionally incorrectly located for my house 1.5 ton, unit with auxillary heat supply, and fulltime air-conditioning) during air conditioning applications it would run for 15 minutes an hour. But when we shut it down for a single weekend fishing trip when we returned it ran for three days nonstop 24-7, trying to regain temperature. Now when i done the math if i would of left the unit running while away it would of ran for a very small fraction of the time(18hrs if left on-vs-72 since we turned the unit off) the time it took to regain the stable temps in the house? And during heating applications it would run 24-7 non stop and never shut off, and still couldnt maintain a stable temperature.
Now i used this fishing trip numbers for my hypothesis that it is/was cheaper to continuously leave at stable temps-vs-roller coaster.
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:05 AM   #8
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Is it actually cheaper to.......???????


During my research of trying to find out if a new programmable thermostat could really save on the utility costs i have found this model that appeals to me!
Now does anyone have any expierience with this model?
HoneyWell, 7 day Programmable Thermostat RTH7500
The seller of this item has advertised that this thermostat would save as much as 30%?
1. Is this a good stat?
2. Will it really do what is said?
3. Is the cost of $45.00 a good fair price?
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Last edited by MrShadetree0222; 10-10-2008 at 01:08 AM. Reason: remove the link to the item described in thread!
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:59 AM   #9
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This is an arguement that will go on forever. It has been proven to save fuel but there are limitations on how low to turn the stat and for how long. A rule of thumb I have always heard is no more than 8 degrees for not less than 8 hours. I do not put alot of faith in "Rule of thumbs" but I have heard that rule for almost 20 years now. The setback time and degrees must outway the cost of recovery.
It is a proven fact that reduced temperatures in a structure will reduce the heat loss. Heat loss is the rate the heat is leaving the structure. Among other things that affect heatloss is the temperature difference between indoor and outdoor temperatures. The greater the temperature difference the greater the heat loss.

Now Mrshadetree0222, your situation is slightly different as you are talking about cooling. I do not know what area of the country you are from but I would guess it is hot & humid. With air conditioning two factors come into play. 1.) would be the temperature you want to mainatin and 2.) the humidity. With air conditioning you must cool and de-humidify. The more humid the home when the a/c is turned on the longer it takes to cool down. When the home is humid we direct more btu's to de-humidify, as the humidity drops we start directing more btu's to cooling. It would make more sense to turn the thermostat up than to turn it off. Turning it up will still alow it to run to keep the humidity under control so the home will cool faster when the thermostat is turned back down. Maybe try raising the thermostat up by 10-12 degrees instead of turning it off.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:03 AM   #10
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Is it actually cheaper to.......???????


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
During my research of trying to find out if a new programmable thermostat could really save on the utility costs i have found this model that appeals to me!
Now does anyone have any expierience with this model?
HoneyWell, 7 day Programmable Thermostat RTH7500
The seller of this item has advertised that this thermostat would save as much as 30%?
1. Is this a good stat?
2. Will it really do what is said?
3. Is the cost of $45.00 a good fair price?
I install nothing but Honeywell thermostats but I have not put in this model. Honeywell seems to make good thermostats as I have never had to pull one out and no one has complained. I have an 8000 in my house.

I doubt that a thermostat can save 30%. No matter how hard I try I can't come to any scenario on how they could save that much money. My guess is that it their claim is due to the fact you can program the computer for 7 days and up to 4 events per day. This ability will be able to cut heating you home when you are not there and makes sense but only for those with a regular schedule.

It might also have features like 2 stage and if your system does not have 2 stage then it won't do much for you.

The price seems reasonable from doing a Google search as long as the seller is a reputable person/business.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:49 AM   #11
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Marv, he's got the HD or Lowe's special. One thing a lot of folks don't realize that these stats being sold at the big box store have to be priced low enough to appeal to the consumer. Hence, you don't get as good a quality stat as you would had you bought it thru a contractor.

The stats I sell are all Energy Star and come with a five year warranty and because they are made better the price is higher. And they are only available thru contractors. I'll put in a customer provided stat but I warn him the current demand from the new furnace we are installing at the same time will probably ruin the cheap stat they bought for $22.

The stats i sell are of better production quality. Simple as that.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:19 PM   #12
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Marv, he's got the HD or Lowe's special. One thing a lot of folks don't realize that these stats being sold at the big box store have to be priced low enough to appeal to the consumer. Hence, you don't get as good a quality stat as you would had you bought it thru a contractor.

The stats I sell are all Energy Star and come with a five year warranty and because they are made better the price is higher. And they are only available thru contractors. I'll put in a customer provided stat but I warn him the current demand from the new furnace we are installing at the same time will probably ruin the cheap stat they bought for $22.

The stats i sell are of better production quality. Simple as that.
I have never seen a good thermostat at HD or Lowe's. They are all low end.

I asked the manager and he said no one would buy it if it were too expensive.

My guess is that is the same reason they don't carry mastic tape for sealing ductwork even though that is the code in this neck of the woods. Consumers have a hard time paying $40 for a roll of tape.

They would rather spend $5 on duct tape that will be dust in a few years.

At least I fell good about the work that I do. I may be expensive but others who know about this stuff will look at my work and smile knowing I did an excellent job.

I have had inspectors take pictures of my work to show those that just don't get it how to do it right.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:04 PM   #13
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Marv, he's got the HD or Lowe's special. One thing a lot of folks don't realize that these stats being sold at the big box store have to be priced low enough to appeal to the consumer. Hence, you don't get as good a quality stat as you would had you bought it thru a contractor.

The stats I sell are all Energy Star and come with a five year warranty and because they are made better the price is higher. And they are only available thru contractors. I'll put in a customer provided stat but I warn him the current demand from the new furnace we are installing at the same time will probably ruin the cheap stat they bought for $22.

The stats i sell are of better production quality. Simple as that.

First of all: yes i currenlty have a Box store unit installed, that is the reason for this thread as to become more knowledged about stats' to better educate myself with them and how they work and what will be the best replacemnet of my box store stat!

Second of all I have not even purchased a new unit(thermostat) yet, who are you to say where/how i purchased my unit? What does it matter if it is a box store purchase or not (lowes-home depot)? When accourding to the Honeywell website( http://yourhome.honeywell.com/NR/rdo...gchart1.pdf)of compatible thermostats for my application the particular model is 3 down from the best of the best offered by Honeywell! Now with this model i have chosen interest in, there are three options not available for the model i chosen, that are stock options for the top liners from this model! And the three options are of no use to me as I dont need them option nor wouldnt use them even if i had them And since I only purchase and use Honeywell I think that 3 from the best is about the best within my budget for my application that will offer me a 7 day programmable funtion.
Which is looking like the best and most efficient way to lower my heating/cooling costs!
What you want me to pay contractor rates plus markup for the exact same model? I called two of my local Hvac, installers in the area, and two of them quated me for the exact same model as i am looking to purchase from a Box store as you call them!(example of the phone call: Hey if i was looking to have a new programmable thermostat installed what model would you recommend or install?, and what models are you currently installing per your average installs, quote"Our best seller is the Honeywell rth7500d, this is a programmable 7 day thermostat, and this thermostat is most exceptional for reducing the cost of heating and cooling for th ecost of the unit" end quote!

So how is this anyless of a quality thermostat when it is 3rd form the best of the best offered by Honeywell? Please explain as I am trying to become more educated as not to be ignorant to the issue!

And with my old style thermostat(CT8775), it has worked very sufficiently with the fact that atleast once a month i would check its accuracy with a mercury stat to ensure it was maintaining its accurate temputure. Becouse if the stat looses its accuracy then it is useless! So what woudl be wrong with just replacing current stat with the same model? It has worked very well and very sufficiently for 2 yrs now! Better yet why even replace it? If it aint broke then dont fix it right?
The purpose of replacement (assuming that it is a cost effective method to save me money)is to go with a programmable stat!
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Last edited by MrShadetree0222; 10-10-2008 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Imput about the three options available of no use to me!
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:15 PM   #14
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I have never seen a good thermostat at HD or Lowe's. They are all low end.

My guess is that is the same reason they don't carry mastic tape for sealing ductwork even though that is the code in this neck of the woods. Consumers have a hard time paying $40 for a roll of tape.

They would rather spend $5 on duct tape that will be dust in a few years.

At least I fell good about the work that I do. I may be expensive but others who know about this stuff will look at my work and smile knowing I did an excellent job.

I have had inspectors take pictures of my work to show those that just don't get it how to do it right.
Wow a 7500 honeywell is lowend? 3rd down on the list! This model is offered at the box stores, for a very reasonable cost for the consumer!
I would never use duct tape in the place of Mastic tape, Wow $40.00 dollars a roll thier, it has got to be regionally priced. I raised an eyebrow over $11.00( at a local mom/pop hardware store in town) a roll yesterday when I ran out! Hehehehe!(I dont feel raped now)

And kudos for such great work inspectors even take pictures to show off, you should be proud of yourself and your work!
All my projects are done to the best of my ability, with the skills and knowledge that i have and if something is out of my range or I dont have expierince with the issue then I will
A: explore and research to learn more then make a fair assumption to try or not.
B: seek the help of a professional in the matter,ie:phone calls or even a cup of coffee for an explanation/educational teaching(you would be very suprised at what information you can get form a pro' over a cup of coffee)
C: Hire a professional to handle the task at hand!
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Old 10-11-2008, 05:39 AM   #15
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Is it actually cheaper to.......???????


Honeywell designations CT and RT identify the thermostat as a retail store thermostat.
Thermostat with those designations have 1 or more abilities disabled that the the equivalent model a contractor can get through his distributor has.

As for setting temp back savings. 1/2°F for every hour you'll be away at work. If going away for the weekend. 10° max set back.

Unless your using a full featured thermostat, setbacks of more then 2° on a heat pump in winter will use more electric.

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