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Old 05-28-2012, 11:13 AM   #1
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AC Sucks - Installer is no help


The central AC is a Bryant / Carrier with the following components:

Furnace: 355CAV060120FASA
AC (Inside): CNPVP6024ATAACAA
AC (outisde): 113ANA060-G
Evolution Control

It's a new build (15 months old) about 3500 sq/ft. Open floor plan, high ceilings. About 2200 sq/ft on ground floor, rest is upstairs. Basement is ducted but since it is unfinished, they are closed.

last year our AC Unit would not cool efficiently - tech came and condenser/Outiside unit were frozen. First two times he said it was dirty filters. Next time it happened I had a new filter, so tech did some troubleshooting and found that the fan speed was not set properly. Ran fine all last summer as long as my fiters were clean and not too thick. I cant use the "good" filters - just the cheapy ones.

So fast forward to this summer - our son has terrible allergies so I got a decent filter (3M Filtrete 1000 rating - $10). As soon as I put it in, the control pad told me to change the filter. I disregarded the message since it was new. Later that night, temp in the house was 7 degrees warmer (we set it was 73, actual temp was 80).

After turning the unti off and letting it thaw, I took the filter out and turned it back on. Unit has run fine since. I called the tech and was told to just use the cheaper filters and it wont happen

Not very happy with that solution . . . so turning to you all for help. It's a half million dollar home - I think I should be able to use a decent hypoallergenic air filter for my son. Oh, and the outside fan motor has failed twice... not sure if it's part of the problem or not...

I'd like to go back to the builder and installer so need some advice.

Thank you


Last edited by hubbard53; 05-28-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:30 AM   #2
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AC Sucks - Installer is no help


Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbard53 View Post
The central AC is a Bryant / Carrier with the following components:

Furnace: 355CAV060120FASA
AC (Inside): CNPVP6024ATAACAA
AC (outisde): 113ANA060-G
Evolution Control

It's a new build (15 months old) about 3500 sq/ft. Open floor plan, high ceilings. About 2200 sq/ft on ground floor, rest is upstairs. Basement is ducted but since it is unfinished, they are closed.

last year our AC Unit would not cool efficiently - tech came and condenser/Outiside unit were frozen. First two times he said it was dirty filters. Next time it happened I had a new filter, so tech did some troubleshooting and found that the fan speed was not set properly. Ran fine all last summer as long as my fiters were clean and not too thick. I cant use the "good" filters - just the cheapy ones.

So fast forward to this summer - our son has terrible allergies so I got a decent filter (3M Filtrete 1000 rating - $10). As soon as I put it in, the control pad told me to change the filter. I disregarded the message since it was new. Later that night, temp in the house was 7 degrees warmer (we set it was 73, actual temp was 80).

After turning the unti off and letting it thaw, I took the filter out and turned it back on. Unit has run fine since. I called the tech and was told to just use the cheaper filters and it wont happen

Not very happy with that solution . . . so turning to you all for help. It's a half million dollar home - I think I should be able to use a decent hypoallergenic air filter for my son. Oh, and the outside fan motor has failed twice... not sure if it's part of the problem or not...

I'd like to go back to the builder and installer so need some advice.

Thank you

It works for the cheap filter, because that's what it was designed (or not designed at all) for. It sounds like your system can't take the additional restriction from the filter.

These solutions take a "better than builder quality" hvac company to see IF there is a solution. and it will probably be ductwork related. Manual J and D

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Old 05-28-2012, 11:34 AM   #3
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AC Sucks - Installer is no help


It works for the cheap filter, because that's what it was designed (or not designed at all) for. It sounds like your system can't take the additional restriction from the filter.

These solutions take a "better than builder quality" hvac company to see IF there is a solution. and it will probably be ductwork related. Manual J and D

At 11 months, you can try to go back to the builder, but in my experience, they are just gonna string you along with bandaid solutions until you give up.'

Now is the time to find a good contractor to fix it..
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:36 AM   #4
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Tech knows what he's doing.. Pretty much black and white as far the system protecting itself or acting normally. You have too much restriction with the filter so it's acting like it's clogged up, thus freezing. I tell everyone I can to get the cheapest filters you can.

The a/c system doesn't care whether or not it's in a half million dollar home or an outhouse in backwoods Kentucky.

Best bet is to get a uv light in the return air and use some less restrictive filters.

Maybe someone else with more experience with these bells and whistles systems will chime in. Possibly research some different filters as well.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #5
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AC Sucks - Installer is no help


Sounds like you have the 1" filter option that is likely 20x25 or so, is that correct? If so, you could do any of the following:
  • Replace the filter rack assembly with a wider filter rack (3,4,or 5") and go to a pleated low restriction filter set up.
  • Add a second return to the other side of the furnace (if possible) and have a second filter.
  • Install an electronic air cleaner (low resistance, but you must service it every month)
  • If allergies is a concern, you can look at UV lights, HEPA filters, Carrier/Bryant makes an air purifier that is really good that uses an electronic section as well as a thick pleated filter section, but $$.)
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HVACDave View Post
Sounds like you have the 1" filter option that is likely 20x25 or so, is that correct? If so, you could do any of the following:
  • Replace the filter rack assembly with a wider filter rack (3,4,or 5") and go to a pleated low restriction filter set up.
  • If allergies is a concern, you can look at UV lights, HEPA filters, Carrier/Bryant makes an air purifier that is really good that uses an electronic section as well as a thick pleated filter section, but $$.)
Thanks. I can use a 3" filter - jsut didnt really think about it since mine will accept either size. I will look into the UV light - thanks for the advice.

Still, I never had a problem with my old house and didnt expect to have one with the same builder and AC brand
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hubbard53 View Post
Thanks. I can use a 3" filter - jsut didnt really think about it since mine will accept either size. I will look into the UV light - thanks for the advice.

Still, I never had a problem with my old house and didnt expect to have one with the same builder and AC brand

Same builder does not equal same subs....maybe he tried to save some $$ on your new house...What do you have for a filter rack?

I actually like the media filters, but they are still more restrictive than a "rock catcher" filter you still have to account for .1 to .2 average pressure drop.

Last edited by Technow; 05-28-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:08 PM   #8
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AC Sucks - Installer is no help


Fist off a home your size should have two staged systems...one for serving upstairs and one for the main living Space/floor.

Your furnace is a five ton blower system and should have both sides of the furnace tapped for return air....or the bottom and one side.

The filter is the entire issue here ....there is a remediation ....using the equipment Doc Holiday suggested or going with a media allergen filter that gets changed every six months.

As techs we see this problem all the time and the fix is easy. Call a contractor to assess your system for duct resistance and resizing of the cold air return and filter.

You will get many suggestions. Run them by the pros here if you want peace of mind.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #9
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AC Sucks - Installer is no help


As others have suggested, it sounds like the ductwork is undersized, particularly the return. Adding a restrictive filter is the straw that breaks the camel's back! If you can use a 3-4" pleated media filter, that's great (don't go overboard with the MERV rating, though). You can also buy 4" honeywell media filters that will work in a 1" return grill (the extra 3" fits inside the box - only the rim is 1"). Is it possible to increase the return grill, ducting or add a second return (preferably on the floor that presently does not have one).

Good luck!
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:47 AM   #10
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Thanks, all, for the feedback. I am going back to the builder to reevaluate the sizing of my unit and ducting.

What bothers me is that I "upgraded" by system to an evolution system at a significant price, however, I'm concerned that all the components are not necessarily "evolution". given what I have, do you professionals consider this an "upgrade"?
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:55 AM   #11
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Your furnace appears to be an evolution series, your A/C is not.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:54 PM   #12
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Did you get the dirty filter message on the control (or do they have it shut off for some reason ) Do you know how to get to the diagnostic screens?

The 113 is only a basic non-communicating (not evolution) AC
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technow View Post
Did you get the dirty filter message on the control (or do they have it shut off for some reason ) Do you know how to get to the diagnostic screens?

The 113 is only a basic non-communicating (not evolution) AC
Yes, about 10 minutes after installing new filters I get the message and have to bypass it.

And yeah, my builder informed me that the "evolution upgrade" included only an evolution series furnace and control
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:21 PM   #14
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Yep, that's the bare minimum to get the evolution system. Sounds like you have duct problems. If you can get to the diagnostic and reporting screens by pressing the advanced button for 10 secs, post what the errors are.

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