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Old 10-12-2009, 11:24 PM   #1
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Hi,

I have Carrier AC unit, model# 58RAV115-20. For some reason, it has stopped heating.

Here is what is happening :
a) Inducer motor comes on
b) Ignitor warms up (I can see glowing ignitor)
c) After ignitor is glowing pretty good, I hear series of clicking sound(it starts from control board side and then it seems to end near gas control valve, I can't make out for sure)
d) And then ignitor now goes off with no gas flame going
e) After that I hear a faint click sound(like relay switch) and then (b)-(d) steps repeats (for ever)

Not sure why gas flame is not coming on after ignitor warm-up step. I know gas line is good because I have another AC unit sitting next to it and that one is working fine.

I have checked at the control board and see that red(R) and white(W) wires are at 24VAC. So I know thermostate is calling for heat.

I have also control board 'system check-out' by shorting TEST to Com/24v and it performs component test as spec'ed.

Any pointer you could provide to help debug/fix this problem is highly appreciated.


Last edited by anku; 10-24-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:35 AM   #2
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AC - Gas flame is not going


It seem that your control valve solenoid is stuck. try tapping on the side of your control valve when you here the click that send the signal to the control valve. Make sure all your limit are not tripped and you are getting supply of gas to the control valve. There is a screen just inside where the 1/2 npt threads into the control valve. Make your gas stop is not plugged up to. If there is no pressure on the control it will not open. The board sends a 24 vac to the control unit.

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Old 10-13-2009, 08:49 AM   #3
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Thanks 'stovall1959' for the reply.

>>Make sure all your limit are not tripped

How do I check all limits ?

Thanks for your time/help.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:25 PM   #4
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Does anyone has any suggestion for this issue ?

Thanks for your time,
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:24 AM   #5
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Quote:
Originally Posted by stovall1959 View Post
It seem that your control valve solenoid is stuck. try tapping on the side of your control valve when you here the click that send the signal to the control valve. Make sure all your limit are not tripped and you are getting supply of gas to the control valve. There is a screen just inside where the 1/2 npt threads into the control valve. Make your gas stop is not plugged up to. If there is no pressure on the control it will not open. The board sends a 24 vac to the control unit.
My control valve make is : White-Rodgers 36E42 (with natural gas to LPG conversion)

FRS1(Flame Rollout Switch) + FRS2 + LS are all closed (checked with multimeter)

I disconnected supply to gas control valve and was able to see 24VAC on it after HSI(Hot Surface Ignitor) cycle. So board seems to be sendin correct voltage. Again board is new (4 month old) and does not have any error signal on it's LED.

It seems to suggest gas control valve (probably solenoid) is bad. I tried to tap it but was of no avail.

Any suggestion how to conrifm it is the control valve unit before I go about getting it replaced ?

Thanks
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:17 PM   #6
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Kind of need a manometer to confirm if its the gas valve, other then test by replacement.

Spiders like to build webs in the burner orfices. So if one did. That would also cause the same problem. Dirty burner orfices can do the same thing. an LP is not as clean as nat gas. may want to check if they are dirty/plugged.

Since your hearing the gas valve click. Either a restriction, or the valve.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:12 PM   #7
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Since your hearing the gas valve click. Either a restriction, or the valve.
Just wanted to mention, it's more like solenoid multiple click. It's like click-click-click-click-click(can't count for sure). Only if I can describe sound in text
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:16 AM   #8
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Valve could have a bad coil in it.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:58 PM   #9
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Kind of need a manometer to confirm if its the gas valve, other then test by replacement.

Spiders like to build webs in the burner orfices. So if one did. That would also cause the same problem. Dirty burner orfices can do the same thing. an LP is not as clean as nat gas. may want to check if they are dirty/plugged.

Since your hearing the gas valve click. Either a restriction, or the valve.
Manometer reading at the INLET supply pressure tap is 11" WC. There is 0 pressure at the MANIFOLD pressure tap. At this point, as you suggested it looks like the valve.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:32 PM   #10
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Today I disassembled valve/burner orific assembly and found that none of the orifices were blocked. I plan to replace the valve now.

Thanks 'beenthere' for your coment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Kind of need a manometer to confirm if its the gas valve, other then test by replacement.

Spiders like to build webs in the burner orfices. So if one did. That would also cause the same problem. Dirty burner orfices can do the same thing. an LP is not as clean as nat gas. may want to check if they are dirty/plugged.

Since your hearing the gas valve click. Either a restriction, or the valve.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:13 PM   #11
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Just a followup post for closure.

I needed a manometer for debug and installation. One could buy it or make it (there are multiple sites on the web showing how to make it). It's a simple but very useful instrument. I decided to make it. I purchase 1/4'ODx1/8" Compression connector(with insert), $2.18 and clean 1/4"OD vinyl tubing($0.70) at near by home improvement store. You just put it together, add dyed water and you are all set.

I removed gas valve assemble along with from flexible connector to the burner orific assembly. I got OEM (carrier) replacement gas valve part number EF660015 (which is the replacement part for my original carrier gas valve part number EF32CW197A/White-Rodgers part number 36E24-202). Valve part cost including shipping $88.

I decided to use yellow gas tape and RectorSeal #5(1.75oz $3.26) pipe dope for my project. You will find different opinion on this topic i.e .how to seal the joint. Some people prefer gas tape only, other just pipe dope and some combination of both.

While I was waiting for part to arrive, I disassembled the assembly from flexible connector. After that I removed all the joints between connector and black pipes (I had 2 at the top adapter + one going from 1/2" pipe to the gas vale + one from gas valve to 1/2" pipe on which orifice sits). Cleaned all old dopes with rag and wire brush.

Once my part arrived, I assembled all the joints. To make a good joint seal, I put 2 round of yellow gas tape and applied the pipe dope. I used 10" pipe wrench to hold pipe/assemble in place and used 14" pipe wrench to tighten it. I let the assemble dope to cure a little overnight (it's not needed but I just wanted to do it). Since my furnace works out of LP fuel, I removed natural gas regulator spring (underneath brass screw on the valve) and replaced it with white LP spring. When you take out brass screw on the valve, you will see white plastic screw. Once you unscrew this plastic screw, you can reach the spring. This plastic screw is used to control manifold pressure. For LP you need ~10 turns on this plastic screw to get 10" w.c. LP pressure in the manifold.

Once I was happy with my assembly, I took it to my furnace and connected to the flexible gas line connector. After that I switch on LP and did leak test with soap water. It was a pleasure to find no leak. on the joints. Now it was time to check/adjust manifold pressure. I removed 1/8" plug from manifold pressure tap and connected the manometer in it's place. Switched on AC/furnace with call for heat. Furnace did normal sequence of operation and flame came ON :-). Waited for ~2 minutes and adjusted manifold pressure to ~10" w.c. (as needed by my furnace) with the method outline in above paragraph. It was beautiful moment to see everything working once again. Then I switched off the furnace, removed manometer and put 1/8" plug at the manifold pressure tap with little dope on it. After that I switched on the furnace once again and did leak check at manifold plug and the manifold black pipe to valve joint.

I would like to extend special thanks to "beenthere", "yuri" and "stovall1959" for their comment/help.

Have a great day !

Last edited by anku; 10-24-2009 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:25 PM   #12
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Your welcome. And congrats on fixing it.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:33 PM   #13
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AC - Gas flame is not going


Alls well that ends well. Congrats.

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