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Old 07-21-2009, 11:58 PM   #1
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Will pay for patio advice! :)


I would love to send some Franklins to whoever can help me sort out this project. First time doing something like this, and first post for me in this forum, but I am highly motivated. And, it shouldn't be too hard, I'd just like to do it correctly the first time!

I'd like to build a pavers stone patio off a cedar/trex porch (that is yet to be built) in our backyard, over the existing dirt, cut into the grass a bit, and possibly over an existing concrete patio that is roughly 10x26. The concrete meets up with the house foundation on one corner, and the slope of it away from the house is 1/8th inch every 4.3 feet. (not much slope huh?)

Please look over the yard photos and my loose sketch of where I'd like to place the patio. (notice I took out an old deck, and that is the old outline you see where the grass and dirt meet)

Some issues to consider/questions I'm wrestling with:
  • concrete slope away from house is not quite where it should be, such as 1/4" to 1/8" per foot. It is 1/8th every 4+ ft. Can the slope of concrete be corrected?
  • slope from house to grass is the same way. The middle of our backyard grass is only 2" shorter than the top of our foundation 30+ ft away. When the pavers meet the foundation, how high can they be placed? 2 inches from the top? I'd like them to be as high as possible so there is less digging as I go away from the house.
  • Can the existing concrete be built onto it with a correct slope and also so that I can place pavers stone on top that leaves only about 2" to the foundation top, AND THEN extend the same pavers stone out the rest of the way using the preferred gravel/sand base method? Right now there is about 7 1/2" from top of foundation to the top of that stoooopid concrete patio.
  • If not, can I at least make the pavers stone patio butt up against the existing concrete patio and stop, and then put a different material on top of the existing concrete patio? (slate, tile, more concrete?)
  • Lastly, if you notice in my sketch, I'd like to build a wood pergola on top of the existing concrete patio, cover it, and put the hot tub and bbq underneath. It will be maybe 9ft x 25ft. Will building up the concrete with the correct slope and new top (slate/tile whatever) then be able to support the hot tub?
I'm open to ideas to say the least. The old deck was falling apart and we think a patio would be much more functional. I'm always open to tearing out the concrete if that's what it takes. Although if you notice in the photos, it has a fence built onto it and it has a 3ft wall one side at the property line separting our neighbors house, and a 1 1/2ft wall separting our backyard with our side yard. If I could take out the top but leave the rest, might that work?

Sorry for the novel. I'll post progress photos as I go along with suggestions and figure this thing out. Oh if it helps the house is a colonial.















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Last edited by DirkPitt; 07-22-2009 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Some issues to consider/questions I'm wrestling with:
  • concrete slope away from house is not quite where it should be, such as 1/4" to 1/8" per foot. It is 1/8th every 4+ ft. Can the slope of concrete be corrected?
  • slope from house to grass is the same way. The middle of our backyard grass is only 2" shorter than the top of our foundation 30+ ft away. When the pavers meet the foundation, how high can they be placed? 2 inches from the top? I'd like them to be as high as possible so there is less digging as I go away from the house.
  • Can the existing concrete be built onto it with a correct slope and also so that I can place pavers stone on top that leaves only about 2" to the foundation top, AND THEN extend the same pavers stone out the rest of the way using the preferred gravel/sand base method? Right now there is about 7 1/2" from top of foundation to the top of that stoooopid concrete patio.
  • If not, can I at least make the pavers stone patio butt up against the existing concrete patio and stop, and then put a different material on top of the existing concrete patio? (slate, tile, more concrete?)
  • Lastly, if you notice in my sketch, I'd like to build a wood pergola on top of the existing concrete patio, cover it, and put the hot tub and bbq underneath. It will be maybe 9ft x 25ft. Will building up the concrete with the correct slope and new top (slate/tile whatever) then be able to support the hot tub?
I edited your post to put the pics in line -easier to read

Since the concrete is too to the side of the house I would not worry about it too much
The problem will be that you want to have the patio edge meet up with the concrete
Usually you want a clearance of 6" from siding to the ground
Where are you located ? Lots of snow or rain?

Are you going to put up additional lateral bracing on the 2nd floor deck?

It looks like the old deck went right up to the bottom of the slider?
Was there anything there to preotect the OSB board?

I might be inclined to rip out the existing concrete & redo it all
Or
Go over the concrete with the same patio block
But that would require a lot of fill

See what others can suggest

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Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 07-22-2009 at 06:14 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:04 PM   #3
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I'm located in Mukilteo, WA. Yes, lots of rain.

No additional lateral bracing for the 2nd floor deck. You'll notice the temp. brace to hold it up while the cement sets, and then those will come off.

The deck did go up to the bottom of the slider, and yes there was ledger board there, etc. that we took out so that we can rebuild another small porch/deck. Basically it will be the size of the 2nd story deck.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:41 PM   #4
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Your house is too low for many codes or the landscaper just got away with murder by bringing in too much material. - Is there a place for the water to go?

Apparently, you have had some moisture problems judging by the different color siding. I would also worry about where the water from the downspout is planned to go.

Because of the increase in finished or paved area, you will have more water to deal with than you do now. The photos give a hint od some lower ground that could be used to your advantage if things are re-graded.

Give the Franklins to a local person that can look at he site and give you some options (not a contractor or someone that has something to sell).

Dick
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
Your house is too low for many codes or the landscaper just got away with murder by bringing in too much material. - Is there a place for the water to go?

Apparently, you have had some moisture problems judging by the different color siding. I would also worry about where the water from the downspout is planned to go.

Because of the increase in finished or paved area, you will have more water to deal with than you do now. The photos give a hint od some lower ground that could be used to your advantage if things are re-graded.

Give the Franklins to a local person that can look at he site and give you some options (not a contractor or someone that has something to sell).

Dick
Dick,

Right now there is a slight slope away from the house in the backyard. It doesn't look that way where the dirt is located, as that dirt had settled over the last 16 years and we didn't notice the opposite slope toward the house when the original wood deck covered all that area. (there was no opening to get under the deck as it was only roughly 2 feet high) We don't really have a water problem - we do get a bit of water under the house (there is about 4-5ft of standing space under the house and maybe 1/4" water in some places that are under the black tarp). The house is facing south however, and that is where the wind blows and rain clouds come from. Also the downspout was just originally built but is not being used by a gutter or anything. Although I ran water through it and the water drains in the front of the house at the street, so I can potentially use that with some kind of underground drain system feeding into it if that is deemed necessary.

The different siding is actually new siding just added. That is where the deck ledger boards used to be for the old deck. I'll try to find a local person that can come by and give me sound advice. Where exactly should I look?

Thanks Dick!

Last edited by DirkPitt; 07-22-2009 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:59 PM   #6
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I guess I was wrong about the moisture/siding relating to the high grade. It just jumped out at me.

You are just another victim of the "ledger concept" for deck support that discovers the problem after the fact. Was the original deck too low with inadequate ventilation?

Looking at the photos later, I see you could have some way to improve your drainage plans before you start working with more permanent materials. They get very difficult to remove or change.

The good side is that the old ledger supported deck was easy to remove and I hope it did not cause any mold in the walls or floors adjacent to it.

Take a hard look at the big picture and your drainage plan before you get too far into the project. Also, take a good look at the underground downspout extensions to make sure they are at the right elevation and grade before you cover them with something more permanent.

Dick
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:35 PM   #7
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You are just another victim of the "ledger concept" for deck support that discovers the problem after the fact. Was the original deck too low with inadequate ventilation?

Dick[/quote]

Dick, I'm not sure how low is too low for a deck ventilation. I have another question though. In order to put in a pavers stone with a slope of about 1/6th inch every foot for proper drainage, the pavers need to be about 2 inches from the bottom of the siding right up to the foundation. That will give me just barely a good enough slope.

I was planning on building a small porch (cedar) this weekend at the slider (see pics above). Then once that is done the pavers stone can be built around it. My question is, since I need to raise the grade under the porch to be level with the future patio, the gravel will be at about 12-14 inches below the top of the deck. Is this too little of space? If I have the sides of the small porch somewhat open will that be sufficient for ventilation?

By the way, the porch up to the sliding glass door will be the same size/shape of the deck above it, with a railing on the right and 2 steps on the left going to the door.


Hope someone can help me!

thanks,
Bill

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