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Old 08-30-2009, 03:31 PM   #1
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Re-directing Water


Hi Folks,

You've already been really helpful and thanks so much.

I'm getting set to install a perimeter drain leading to an under ground sump barrel.

The surface water is collecting on the north side of my house which does
not have gutters. I don't want them.

The plan is to dig down 24 inches, install plastic liner to collect all water coming off the roof next the foundation, then add crushed stone, perforated piping covered with plastic mesh and then stone. This pipe with take the rain water to a perforated sump barrel filled with stone. The sump barrel will also be buried under the lawn.

4 questions,

1. What pitch should the pipe be to make sure water drains to the sump container?

2. I have both a nylon sock and a roll of the plastic mess to keep sand and silt out of my piping. Which product is perferred to cover the perforated piping?

3. How many feet from my home should the sump barrel (filled with stone and holes) be so the collected water can't work it's way back to the foundation?

4. Right now, my (public sewer access hole) wash out hole is wet year round with about 5 inches of water. Can I expect this to dry up under the basement floor once the water gets piped away from the house?

Respectfully your,
Jak Ray
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:06 PM   #2
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Re-directing Water


It's likely you are about to make the situation worse.

Suppose you have a house of 1800 sq ft and half the roof area drains to the back. Since the water is not immediately running away from the back area, it is likely that some of the yard adds to the water causing the problem, say another 300 sq ft. So, with 1200 sq ft of drainage area, what is the runoff from a 1 inch rain? Each 1 inch on a sq ft equals 1/12 of a cu. ft. Thus divide 1200 by 12 to find that you have 100 cu ft of water to discharge. There is better than 7 gal in a cu ft, or 700 gal of water to deal with. Suppose you have a 55 gal "sump barrel. Once filled with stone it will only take around 25 gal of water to finish filling it.

It ain't gonna be easy to get that 700 gal of water to go in a barrel that only holds 25 gal. Expect all of the system to be full of water and much of it will find its way to your foundation.

Now if you make your "sump barrel' to be around 2100 gal in size, it just might work. Well, until you get a 2 inch rain, that is.
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:01 PM   #3
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Re-directing Water


Dear PLS8XX,

I noted the comments and they make mathematical sense?

What would you do?

Cheers,
Jak Ray
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:21 PM   #4
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Re-directing Water


The solution of every one of these flat lot drainage problems begins with the completion of a base map with elevations throughout the property. The more flat the ground the more accurate the elevations needed.

You may have a head start on a scaled map if you have a property survey that shows the location of the house. Look for it.

If you want instructions for how you can do a base map, photos of your lot would make it easier to select a method that suits the situation.

If it sounds like a lot of work, it is. That's why it costs so much to have a pro do it.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:04 AM   #5
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Re-directing Water


Dear Pls8xx,

You are absolutedly correct, there is no way a 40 gallon barrel (even empty) will take away water from 1/4 (hip roof colonial) of my roof and drain it off.

Clearing up the under the basement (surface water) build up is a much larger problem to correct.

Forgive me for not making myself clear.

During the last 3 years on one side of my home (smaller north side wall) there has been standing water after rains. Each year, the pool of water gets larger and is now out about 5 feet from the full basement foundation. The water is about 2 - 4 inches deep depending on the amount of rain.

My question is, how best to remove that standing water which is bound to
find a crack in the the basement's cement wall.

I was hoping the sump container would do the trick?

Jak Ray
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:20 AM   #6
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Re-directing Water


Jak Ray said
"My question is, how best to remove that standing water which is bound to find a crack in the the basement's cement wall."

Until I see an accurate base map, I don't have a clue. If you don't want to do the base map, call a local pro.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:38 AM   #7
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Re-directing Water


Pls8xx,

I will get the "base map" and get back to you.

Jak R
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:53 PM   #8
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Re-directing Water


Jak Ray, Pls8xx is correct and most important is you never want to encourage water anywhere unless you have a suitable leaching pool or sump basin discharge pump to evacuate the water elsewhere. Unfortunately, if you have a 25 gallon basin or a 2100 gallon basin your only storing water unless it can leach into the soil. Some areas of the country have heavy layers of soil that do not allow the water to perk out or leach quickly enough to provide adequate drainage for an installation such as you propose. I have replaced many such systems where landscapers have directed roof leaders and surface drains into 4" perforated corrugated pipe ultimately ending up in the small plastic wells that you can purchase at home improvement centers. Many times this traps large volumes of water close to the foundation wall and allows it to seep into the foundation walls gradually. This is tell-tale when I get a call from a homeowner that has water producing into the basement for many days after a rain event.

As far as that standing water issue you have its not uncommon to have water collect in a low impact area providing its gone within a few hours after the rain ends. The problem with it being 5' from your foundation is serious, generally water should be directed away from the first 10' around the walls of the foundation. That 10' area around your foundation is generally referred to as the overcut when the soil is excavated in order to form the foundation walls or block depending on the construction type. If it is at all possible you should raise the elevation in this area and allow for a 1/4" per foot pitch to kick that water further away from your walls. There is alot you can do to manage water before it becomes an issue. I hope this helps.
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