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Old 05-14-2011, 06:21 AM   #1
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Nutsedge


Well, I was all excited that my new grass was supposedly growing, and wondering why the one area seemed lighter green. That's cause it's nutsedge. There is a little of the new grass growing. The nutsedge is still small, the tallest of it being about 3" - which is when I recognized it. It's mostly along the curb, in patches, the largest of which is about 1-1/2x1 feet.

So I have a few choices. I called a local nursery/landscape place to see if they had something like SedgeHammer. She said they have a new product, she thinks called Nutsedge Killer, and I seem to think she said it was by Ortho. I read chemicals won't work if it's getting too big, but it's small enough this might work. It also might kill whatever new grass was coming up, but really, that's the least of my worries. It'll be bare and I'll have to really watch the weeds, but I can re-plant in the fall.

I can also try to pull it up after a good rain, which we've gotten plenty of. But I'm not sure I'm getting all the root. They might grow back, but I'm thinking this might give the new grass a better chance to grow??? Then plant more in the fall. And then try the chemicals earlier next year when it's smaller, but the grass maybe in better condition.

I can also ignore it, just keep plowing it over with the lawnmower. It's pretty, but it grows too fast and seems to be getting more prominent. This still leaves me trying to kill it next year, probably not with very good grass in the area. The only advantage to this one (besides being the lazy way out ) is that it's easier to pull up when it's more mature and maybe I can get it pulled in the fall.

What would seem the best route?

Side note - I'm going to need some top soil. The nursery has a cubic yard for something like $40-45. Does that seem reasonable?

Second side note - some of the new grass is in a totally different area, where a bush was. And it's growing great and it's very cute. So at least one thing turned out good.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:20 AM   #2
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Nutsedge


Sorry this is getting so long. I forgot my other idea. Spray it with Round Up. Someone on here said they didn't have much luck growing grass where RoundUp had been. But the area where the bush was got sprayed down with RoundUp last fall. Spring of this year I pulled/raked all the dead stuff up and the grass is growing just fine.

So perhaps the time lag makes it OK?

Starting to think I'll try something different in different spots and see which works the best.
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Old 05-14-2011, 02:52 PM   #3
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Nutsedge


Nutsedge is hard to kill; Sedgehammer seems to be the best.
Difficult to control by pulling; you likely end up leaving part of theplant underground that just shoots off a new runner. Best to control them now before they spread; easier to sacrifice a small area of new grass now than to try to remove the sedge from the larger mature lawn IMO.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:54 PM   #4
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Yeah, I just got done talking to a guy at a garden center and he seemed to think the Roundup option might be my best bet. He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass. I thought that would be too late in the year and he said he'd do it anyway and just see how it does, to help try to save it from further weeds, and then overseed again in the fall if necessary.

The new grass mostly wasn't growing anyway - I think that area is in too bad of shape. So I think I'll just bite the bullet and deal with a big bare area for a while, and just get it done once and for all.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass.
Not true!
Roundup (glyphosate) is deactivated in the soil. Pesticides are like any other tool, they have certain uses for certain places. Gly will kill, or at least severly damage anything that it gets on. Some herbicides have residual soil activity and this is where you have to be careful. The advantage of Sedgehammer is that, although it will not kill your lawn, it will adversely affect desirable trees, shrubs, and other ornamentals.

Quote:
to help try to save it from further weeds
Roundup has no pre-emergent use whatsoever. It will only affect weeds that are growing now.


Now to your original question. Nutsedge spreads by several means. Yes, it is very easy to pull especially when it gets big enought to get a good hold on and after a rain. But you do not get it all as suggested earlier. Do not wait. It will only spread and be harder and harder to get rid of. What lawn do you have? I have used RoundUp on bermuda in some instances. I use a very pinpoint nozzle and give it a quick shot right at the base. The bermuda will burn but will fill back in in a couple of weeks if the small brown spots are not a problem. Not for everywhere, but an option. Although the label says for use in lawns, if your sedge is near the root zone of desirable plants, do not use it. Generally speaking, consider about three times the size of the plant for the root zone.
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Not true!
Roundup (glyphosate) is deactivated in the soil. Pesticides are like any other tool, they have certain uses for certain places. Gly will kill, or at least severly damage anything that it gets on. Some herbicides have residual soil activity and this is where you have to be careful. The advantage of Sedgehammer is that, although it will not kill your lawn, it will adversely affect desirable trees, shrubs, and other ornamentals.
I'm not sure I'm taking your meaning. You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity. So is it deactivated in the soil or not? The place my new grass is growing the best is where I used Roundup last year to just kill off everything in the area. (Wish I'd used it in the other areas too.) But there was a huge time lag in there.


Quote:
Roundup has no pre-emergent use whatsoever. It will only affect weeds that are growing now.
I know it's not a pre-emergent. I was speaking of it killing off plants that can then no longer spread - at least not past whatever they've already done.


Quote:
Now to your original question. Nutsedge spreads by several means. Yes, it is very easy to pull especially when it gets big enought to get a good hold on and after a rain. But you do not get it all as suggested earlier. Do not wait. It will only spread and be harder and harder to get rid of. What lawn do you have? I have used RoundUp on bermuda in some instances. I use a very pinpoint nozzle and give it a quick shot right at the base. The bermuda will burn but will fill back in in a couple of weeks if the small brown spots are not a problem. Not for everywhere, but an option. Although the label says for use in lawns, if your sedge is near the root zone of desirable plants, do not use it. Generally speaking, consider about three times the size of the plant for the root zone.
It's mostly Kentucky bluegrass and some tall fescue, and possible some other stuff, but probably nothing else I'd be sorry to lose. And there's nothing else nearby that is going to stay. There's some possible future use of the area, but that's a long time away, as in years.

I ended up getting this new thing of Ortho's called Nutsedge Killer (which claims to kill all sorts of other stuff - we'll see). I'll use that in the areas where the grass is established and see what happens. The more bare areas where there's no grass or very little, I'm going to try the Roundup. Fortunately it's still small and I'll have a better chance of it. I have a tiny yard and plenty of grass seed, so I don't mind having to re-seed again in fall or next spring if I have to.
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Yeah, I just got done talking to a guy at a garden center and he seemed to think the Roundup option might be my best bet. He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass.
Again:
Quote:
He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass.
To which I contest is not true.


Quote:
I know it's not a pre-emergent.



Quote:
You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity. So is it deactivated in the soil or not?
So research glyphosate and see.


The more I re-read this, the more I realize you are not here to learn. You just want to ask questions then argue with people. I do this for a living. I am a Georgia Certified Landscape Professional, which means that I have basically the same knowledge as someone with a college degree except that I learned by doing it instead of in a classroom. I also have a Commercial Pesticide Applicator's license. And certified in federal erosion and sediment control. But that probably means nothing.

Good day!
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:36 AM   #8
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Nutsedge


Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Again:


The more I re-read this, the more I realize you are not here to learn. You just want to ask questions then argue with people.
Exactly what in this thread have I argued with? I asked for some clarification on something you said. You stress you disagree on the 4 week thing - great, but I wasn't arguing about it. I was asking for some clarification of something I didn't understand, and still don't cause you just repeated that you don't agree with 4 weeks. How did I get to be the bad guy here?

And now I am arguing cause this is just getting ridiculous. I think you're just ticked over the other thread and projecting it over here, cause now you're mad just cause I asked for some clarification of something. Sheesh!!!
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:41 PM   #9
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Nutsedge


Roundup doesn't work very well on my nutsedge crop; kinda of spotty effect. I'd be interested in your experience with the ORtho product to see how satisfied you are with it. Post back in a couple of weeks if you can remember.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity.
Two different points in two different sentences. Anything I post can be verified by minimal research.

Product labels have a wealth of information on them. I would suggest reading them.

Glyphosate does not last four weeks in the soil. Period! This is a point in and of itself.


Notice the space here.


The following point is not directly related to glyphosate.



Different point-
Some herbicides can and will be taken up by the roots of other plants besides the one intended to be killed. Again, reading the label is very useful here.

Quote:
save it from further weeds
I am confused here. I do not understand your diction of "further weeds." I thought that once you kill the present weed, further weeds would mean those that would come in the future. Not?

And then you say
Quote:
I know it's not a pre-emergent. I was speaking of it killing off plants that can then no longer spread - at least not past whatever they've already done.
Presuming that the present individual weed entity is killed, glyphosate will not prevent those tubers which are left behind from sprouting.
Quote:
He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass. I thought that would be too late in the year and he said he'd do it anyway and just see how it does, to help try to save it from further weeds,
Is this not the very essence of a pre-emergent? To prevent further weeds?

I'm not ticked off or mad. I am irritated that simple information was posted and that two completely different points in two different sentences were lumped together then purported to be confusing.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob22 View Post
Roundup doesn't work very well on my nutsedge crop; kinda of spotty effect. I'd be interested in your experience with the ORtho product to see how satisfied you are with it. Post back in a couple of weeks if you can remember.
Interesting. Wow, can't say I'm happy to hear that Roundup has not worked well for you. I was looking at that as my last resort.

I'll let you know how the Ortho thing works out. My impression is that it's kind of the "over-the-counter" version of a profession chemical. (Which I interpret to mean "weak." ) I suspect it'll be more than a couple of weeks - with all the rain we've been getting, I'll be lucky if I get to try it. I'd really like to do this ideally, exactly as the bottle states, but the conditions are not helping in that effort.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Nutsedge
Quote:
You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity.
Two different points in two different sentences. Anything I post can be verified by minimal research.

Product labels have a wealth of information on them. I would suggest reading them.
I have read the label. In fact, I get made fun of for the way I'm always so insistent about reading all labels and directions and guides, etc. Apparently you are assuming I haven't read it. However, its information really is limited in some respects. I look it up online and find a lot of technical junk I don't understand.

Quote:
Glyphosate does not last four weeks in the soil. Period! This is a point in and of itself.
Well, ya know, that statement about glyphosate not lasting four weeks in the soil - you never said that in the other post. Read your post. You didn't say that. I said the guy at the garden center told me to "wait 4 weeks" and plant grass. You said "Not true." So, does "not true" mean I should wait LESS time? Or MORE time? Or that grass won't grow at all?

So I don't know any special meaning behind "not true" other than that you disagree with the guy, and somehow that means I'm "arguing" with you? I mean, HUH?

Nice point, assuming you'd said it to being with.

Quote:
Notice the space here.
Well, the space is in THIS post. It wasn't in the other post. Was I supposed to know to create a space in the middle of your paragraph? If you wanted to create a space, maybe you should have put one there?

Quote:
Different point-
Some herbicides can and will be taken up by the roots of other plants besides the one intended to be killed. Again, reading the label is very useful here.
Hmm. That sentence was in the same paragraph, but without the sarcastic current "note the space here" part. Same paragraph. No space. It really is not very clear whether you are referring to the Roundup, or to something else, or just making a generic comment. Guess I'm supposed to be a mind reader again.

Quote:
Quote:
save it from further weeds
I am confused here. I do not understand your diction of "further weeds." I thought that once you kill the present weed, further weeds would mean those that would come in the future. Not?
Yes. Wow, we're together on one thing.

Quote:
And then you say

Quote:
I know it's not a pre-emergent. I was speaking of it killing off plants that can then no longer spread - at least not past whatever they've already done.
Presuming that the present individual weed entity is killed, glyphosate will not prevent those tubers which are left behind from sprouting.
Yes. See the part about "not past whatever they've already done"? I re-wrote that about 3 times, wondering if you were going to misinterpret what I was trying to say. Plants spread by different means, seeds, tubers, whatever. If the tubers already exist, then that would be under the category of "whatever they've already done." Or a simplier way to put it, if a seed has already blown into another part of the yard, killing the original plant isn't going to do anything about that seed. But it will keep said plant from creating new seeds to blow into the yard, right? I don't know if Roundup kills the tubers or not. If it doesn't, then that is what "not past whatever they've already done" is supposed to mean. Because, well, the tubers are already there.

My understanding of a pre-emergent would be preventing the little tuber from doing anything, or at least growing up properly. That is, like the next year, in the spring, before the things crop up. No, I don't expect that Roundup will do that.

Sorry if I screw up any vocabulary. You already are well aware that I'm not a professional, so don't accuse me of "arguing" if I happen to screw up some vocabulary. Regardless of the arguing issuing, why do you expect someone to get all the proper vocabulary. Have I actually screwed it up? Or do you get what I was saying? If I've screwed the vocabulary, why don't you try EXPLAINING it instead of just being sarcastic and accusing me of arguing?


Quote:
Quote:
He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass. I thought that would be too late in the year and he said he'd do it anyway and just see how it does, to help try to save it from further weeds,
Is this not the very essence of a pre-emergent? To prevent further weeds?
He meant that if I didn't plant anything and left the area bare, void of any grass, that it would be too easy for new weeds to crop up. i.e. even my ignorance knows that a strong turf is a good start to preventing the growth of weeds and that a bare area is gonna end up full of crabgrass and whatnot. His idea was trying to get the grass to grow and hopefully become strong enough to prevent fall weeds. Besides, he is the one who said it, not me. I was quoting him. So why do you accuse me of "arguing" when I was quoting someone else? I mean, why the heck are you blaming what HE said on ME?

Quote:
I'm not ticked off or mad. I am irritated that simple information was posted and that two completely different points in two different sentences were lumped together then purported to be confusing.
So you're irritated that I didn't understand everything you said? Wow, don't become a teacher. Seriously. How would I know that the "some herbicides" was meant to be a different herbicide? There was NOTHING in that paragraph to indicate if you were talking about Roundup or if you were talking about something else, or just talking in general. And yet, you're irritated that I couldn't distinguish this and know for sure that you were talking about other herbicides or in general.

In fact, I'm still not sure. I'm getting the impression now that you weren't referring to Roundup, but that absolutely was not clear in the original post. I ask for clarification, and you're irritated and accusing me of "arguing"?

Really, all I can end with is excuse me!!! I am not a stupid person. (Ask anyone who actually knows me.) You have not been very clear, and yet you think that you have and you're treating me like an idiot for it. And let's just pretend for a moment that you were perfectly clear and that I'm really an idiot, what is your reasoning that I was "arguing" with you? I was asking for clarfication. You accused me of coming to this site and posting for the sake of arguing, but I wasn't arguing until I was defending myself against your accusations. Read everything before your accusation and tell me where I was arguing.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:07 PM   #13
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Nutsedge


I recommend you just find and plant some star of bethlehem bulbs and soon you'll have a georgous white flowered lawn. All your problems will be over.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:27 PM   #14
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Interesting. Wow, can't say I'm happy to hear that Roundup has not worked well for you. I was looking at that as my last resort.

I'll let you know how the Ortho thing works out. My impression is that it's kind of the "over-the-counter" version of a profession chemical. (Which I interpret to mean "weak." ) I suspect it'll be more than a couple of weeks - with all the rain we've been getting, I'll be lucky if I get to try it. I'd really like to do this ideally, exactly as the bottle states, but the conditions are not helping in that effort.
I'll jump in here for a moment... I grew up on a farm, my 75-year old dad still farms, and my brother manages a large farmland coop that specializes in fuels and agronomy.

The bottom line is that the RoundUp you can buy at WalMart is not the same stuff the farmers use. That's why they have to go to classes and be certified before they can buy the stuff.

Also, RoundUp has been on the market for about 40 years. A lot of weeds/plants (probably not so much in urban areas) have grown resistant to it. It'll burn them, and make them mad, but it won't kill them.

To also clarify, regardless of what anybody tells you, RoundUp is a "contact herbicide." It kills the weeds it touches, but nothing else. There MIGHT BE a trace of residual effect in the soil, for a brief time. But even that is not likely.


So... As in the other thread, I'll again suggest to you that you get ahold of a farm supply store, or your Extension Office (if you're able) to get a little more qualified set of answers to your specific local problem. Good luck!
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #15
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To also clarify, regardless of what anybody tells you, RoundUp is a "contact herbicide." It kills the weeds it touches, but nothing else. There MIGHT BE a trace of residual effect in the soil, for a brief time. But even that is not likely.
This is a true statement, but Roundup will definitely travel in the soil upon initial application.

You should be prepared, as stated above, for things outside of what you spray to die. I have found that with VERY careful application (even with using a shield) I can still expect things to die in an approximately 10-12 inch radius around the spot sprayed. I've sprayed a lot of homeowner grade Round-up this year (on dandelions) and that is my experience.
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