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Old 03-09-2009, 08:31 PM   #16
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just keep digging and put in a pool...... Po)

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Old 03-09-2009, 08:40 PM   #17
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When I am looking at the picture that looks straight at the house, I am assuming the long side closest to the camera is where it is 7" deep...am I correct by saying this. If this is the case, you can simply raise the patio up a bit by adding a course or so along this side. This will get you patio up above the grade and easily allow you to control where you want the water to flow. As for the retaining walls on the side, lay the base course then lay a 4" perforated behind the wall and then backfill with #57 stone, fill the cores of the block as well if they have them. The drain pipes need to be vented to daylight, I would run the one on the right (look at the house) down past the patio and have it come out of the ground some where down hill of the patio....same for the one on the left.

If you do not want to raise the patio and want it to be sunken, you need to put a drain in the patio. You can put it in the center of the patio and slope all of the sides to it, you need about a 2% slope.

Here is a picture of a patio I recently completed with a drain in the center of the patio
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:41 PM   #18
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BTW, What are you backfilling with?
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:54 AM   #19
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BTW, What are you backfilling with?
I'm re-doing the whole dig and going with a raised patio. I simply don't have the expertise to do a sunken patio and can't afford to have it done for me professionally. Didn't realize how daunting it would be till I was standing in the hole.

I am going to backfill with the native dirt/clay compacted down every few inches as I re-fill and then will use about 4" of Class V rock and 1" of paver patio sand. I am going to build the wall and then fill to about 7" of the top to allow for the Class V, sand and pavers.

I'm going to get going on refilling that hole later today.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:03 AM   #20
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kyassassin, personally I would highly recommend not backfilling with the soil you just took out of the hole. It is going to be a tall task to get it compacted correctly. If it was me I would use the same base rock you are going to use. If you do not get it compacted correctly you are almost guaranteed to have setting in your pavers and walls, which is not something you want. Clay has the ability to compact, but it retains an enormous amount of water and is almost guaranteed to settle. You are also going to need to use some geo-textile fabric as a separation fabric to keep your base material separate from the earth.

Why not just complete the dig in the manner you have done so and then use the retaining wall blocks to raise the patio level slightly above the existing grade and then backfill the whole thing with base rock. Yes, it will be more expensive, but you have have much better results and a patio that will be there forever.

What you are doing right now is not as hard as you think, it just takes a little more planning. If you need some guidance and tips you can contact me and I would be glad to help you out...I own a hardscaping company btw.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:45 AM   #21
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Crap. What in the hell have I done?

Could I fill in part of the hole with the soil and use part of the rock? I have ordered 2 tons of dense grade aggregate #57 (that's what the quarry man recommended) to be delivered. The guy estimated that I would need about 1.75 tons for the project so I'll have a little bit extra. Should I just get more? It is only about $9 a ton.

I realize that it might settle a little bit but I also worry that the rock would do the same.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:48 AM   #22
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The foundation for the wall blocks and the base for the pavers should be 3/4" modified stone (aka crush and run) and you need #57 stone for drain stone behind the retaining walls. If you use crush and run for the wall fountation and the paver base and you tamp it with a machine plate compactor in 2-3" lifts and you lightly wet it you will have no settling.

Using soil for the backfill for pavers will definitely result in settling and probably more than you think. Have you ever seen a trench dug for utilities such as power, pipes, ect.....? When the trench is backfilled with dirt and compacted with a jumping jack tamper you almost always still have settling and that is with no weight on it, so imagine putting 4" of rock, 1" of bedding sand, and then the pavers.

You can do your patio the way you were doing it, suken down. But you just need to add a drain some where on the patio to allow the water to drain. It looks like you have a good slope going from left to right is you are looking at the house, so you can easily drain the water away. With a little bit of planning and some patients you can have this problem fixed.

If you are willing and can afford the cost of raising the patio slightly, that is probably the best option and can easily be done, you are just going to need more base rock, and maybe a few more retaing wall blocks for the side that runs parallel to the house.

If you want, take some more pictures and give me some meassurements and I can figure up what exactly you need and tell you exactly how to do it. Truely it is not that hard, it just takes some hard manual labor. My e-mail address is monumentallandscapes@gmail.com .
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:17 PM   #23
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So if I were to fill this back in with the native soil how would you rec that I do it? Right now I am thinking that I could fill a couple of inches and add a little water and then compact it down with the manual stomper that I bought.

I might try to call and see how much a plate compacter would cost for the week.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyassassin View Post
I dug a lot.

Edit: Pics Uploaded


holy smokes. That is a lot to do by hand.
hmm..
you want to install pavers??

my first suggestion is to contact your local stone yard and get a few cubic yard of aggregate to use as base.tamp that stuff in as well as possible.

given the slope of the yard, you might consider building a small retaining wall out of Pavestone's "Windsor" block on the right side of these photos to bring that side up to grade and still look pretty sharp. hell, terrace it and you might have a couple of small planters by the end ofit as well.

Looks good, you have a great start. Keep those ibuprofen handy!
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyassassin View Post
So if I were to fill this back in with the native soil how would you rec that I do it? Right now I am thinking that I could fill a couple of inches and add a little water and then compact it down with the manual stomper that I bought.

I might try to call and see how much a plate compacter would cost for the week.

I needed one for work last summer.
IIRC, it was around 80 bucks a day for a walk behind packer. They can beat the snot out of you but they certainly make the job easier.
If you have a Sunbelt (formerly Nations Rent) nearby, call em up.

*edit*
at my work, when we backfill,, we typically do it in 6" lifts.

Last edited by LoneStarGuitar; 03-10-2009 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:44 PM   #26
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Hey KyAssassin, stop beating yourself up.

Personally I would take a little time to review all your options. ie. What do you need to do to put in the lower patio and retaining wall (foundation, drainage?). What you would need to do for a raised patio? ETC...

Whatever you do, don't rush into making a decision until you know all the details.

I do think BeranBr is giving you some very sound advice on the backfilling. I wouldn't put a patio on ground that is backfilled with soil. If anything, backfill it with rock as indicated by Beranbr.

Good luck with this and be sure to keep us updated with photos and such. This is going to look fantastic when you get it done.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:26 PM   #27
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I have found a solution that will work better and solve my problems.

First, I had a buddy come over tonight and he and I filled the hole almost completely up (probably over 2/3rds full) with the dirt I removed. We tamped it down the best we could.

Now for the solution --- tell me what you think.

I am going to shift the entire patio to the right so that it is directly in front of the covered patio (and NOT the bay window). This will put it on solid ground and not over the ground that I just repacked. I'll be able to re-grade the packed soil so that it is level with the top of the new paver patio.

The patio will have a wall around at least the right side and side parallel to the house. The left side might also have a small wall, if needed. I'll build some stairs eventually off the patio onto the lawn.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I am reading everything you say and am open to further ideas/criticisms.

Let me know what you think.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:01 PM   #28
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The hole has been filled. Soil re-graded.

Ready to dig for porch version 2.0. Porch will go directly to the right of the filled in hole. Grade will slope down to the base of the patio or retaining wall on the left side of the patio.

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Old 03-12-2009, 01:35 PM   #29
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KyAssassin, check out this thread on a guy who did an outdoor BBQ. I think that would be a nice addition to your patio. Maybe with a pergola over top.

Outdoor BBQ Set-up
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #30
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Swallowing my pride and removing my own shoe from my ass.

Reminds me of some colorful Kentucky jokes a buddy of mine from KY told me. I still have not tried Kentucky (KY) jelly!

I'm watching this one - I really want to see how you tackle that wicked slope.

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