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Need Patio Advice - Pictures Included

50K views 45 replies 14 participants last post by  Luis C. 
#1 ·
I have a covered patio in my backyard but no real place to put my grill. I would like to add on to the patio with a paver patio or stamped concrete patio. The reason I am posting this is because I have a slight slope to the area that I want to build the patio and am unsure what to do (see pictures).

Option #1:
A "full patio" that is 10' wide and 22' long basically doubling my covered patio area. This obviously will be more expensive but would be nice and allow for outdoor seating.

Option#2:
A "grill pad" type area that would be about 8' by 8' or so on the left area of the patio that is much more level with a gentle downhill slope. This would be enough room for the grill but not allow for any outdoor seating.

What would you do in my situation? What are my options and the approximate costs of each? How difficult do you think each option would be for a DIYer?










 
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#6 ·
A paver patio or pad is definitely possible. And there is many different ways you can go about it. You can build a raised patio up to the level of you existing cover patio, or you can build a patio that is raised on one end with retaining wall blocks, or you can dig out the patio with a retaining wall on the high end.

Option 1 (Raised patio to existing patio level) 10'x22'

Retaining wall: ~50 square face feet. Prices vary from $12-30 per square face feet
Caps: 32-40 linear feet. Prices vary from $7-20 per linear foot
Geo-textile: ~300 square feet. Price is about $0.30 per square foot
Pavers: 220-240 square feet. Prices vary from $3-7 per square foot for concrete pavers
Crush and Run: (this is the base material for the walls and pavers) ~22-25 tons. Check with you local quarry, but ~$20-30 per ton
Coarse concrete sand: 1 ton. Same as the crush and run gravel
Masonry glue for caps: 1-2 tubes: ~$5-7 per tube

Option 2 is going to be quite a bit less because you are going to use a lot less wall blocks and crush and run.

I were to hire a contractor to do this job, option 1 would probably run you any where from $5,500 to $8,000 depending on the materials you use. Options 2 and 3 are definitely going to be less and if you do it yourself....a whole lot less.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I decided to do this myself using a slightly sunken or recessed patio. I am going to use patio pavers. Also, I am going to have a small 2 foot retaining wall on the left side and a similar retaining wall on the right side. I will have a very small retaining wall abour 4 feet long on the side parallel to the house.

I am having to dig 27" at the tallest side and 7" at the lowest side to account for the slope of the yard. This is a huge amount of dirt that I am removing by hand.

The final dimensions will be 13' x 9' including the retaining walls. As you can see I am still digging.

I'll try to post pictures later today. Please let me know what tips/advice/criticism you have. Thanks.

Edit: Pics Uploaded

 
#24 ·
I dug a lot.

Edit: Pics Uploaded


holy smokes. That is a lot to do by hand.
hmm..
you want to install pavers??

my first suggestion is to contact your local stone yard and get a few cubic yard of aggregate to use as base.tamp that stuff in as well as possible.

given the slope of the yard, you might consider building a small retaining wall out of Pavestone's "Windsor" block on the right side of these photos to bring that side up to grade and still look pretty sharp. hell, terrace it and you might have a couple of small planters by the end ofit as well.

Looks good, you have a great start. Keep those ibuprofen handy!
 
#11 · (Edited)
I am going to take my time with the sloping. I realize that it is essential to getting rid of water. It will be sloped to the lowest point obviously (the far right corner away from the house).

Where would you put the drains? Do you think I need french drains behind the short 2 foot retaining walls or will crushed rock be enough?

If you put a drain through the retaining wall how is that done? How far out into the yard do I need to run the drain after going through the wall? Are "weep" drains adequate or would you use something like PVC?

The final patio won't be as deep as it looks in the picture. I still have to add 4-5" of crushed rock base, 1" of sand and 2.5" of paver patio for a total of 7-8".

Finally, do you think I'm crazy building a patio like this?
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the opinion. I really appreciate it. I live in KY so I have freezing temps 3-5 months a year.

I am thinking that you may be correct and that I am crazy. I really didn't realize what I was getting myself into until I had dug the hole - which is why I posted on here.

I think I may just build up the retaining wall on all 3 sides and not dig down as far.

Also I am really getting worried about the water retention of this project. I can picture it as a big tub of water.

I'm kicking myself right now.
 
#14 ·
Don't be too hard on yourself, you've just practiced digging.:wink:

If the soil you removed looks fairly good, I'd use it to fill in low spots. Make sure when you fill in your excavation you compact it in 2-4" lifts to give your patio a solid base.

When rethinking your design, consider adding electrical outlets and landscape lighting that can be controlled from the house.

Good luck
 
#15 ·
Swallowing my pride and removing my own shoe from my ass.

Just bought 70 retaining blocks and 18 caps for the retaining wall. Now I just need to get some sand and rock delivered.

I'm going to with the wall on the low end and back fill it to the high end. I'm going to need to fill that damn hole/mistake first though.

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:
 
#30 ·
Swallowing my pride and removing my own shoe from my ass.

Reminds me of some colorful Kentucky jokes a buddy of mine from KY told me. I still have not tried Kentucky (KY) jelly! :no:

I'm watching this one - I really want to see how you tackle that wicked slope.
 
#17 ·
When I am looking at the picture that looks straight at the house, I am assuming the long side closest to the camera is where it is 7" deep...am I correct by saying this. If this is the case, you can simply raise the patio up a bit by adding a course or so along this side. This will get you patio up above the grade and easily allow you to control where you want the water to flow. As for the retaining walls on the side, lay the base course then lay a 4" perforated behind the wall and then backfill with #57 stone, fill the cores of the block as well if they have them. The drain pipes need to be vented to daylight, I would run the one on the right (look at the house) down past the patio and have it come out of the ground some where down hill of the patio....same for the one on the left.

If you do not want to raise the patio and want it to be sunken, you need to put a drain in the patio. You can put it in the center of the patio and slope all of the sides to it, you need about a 2% slope.

Here is a picture of a patio I recently completed with a drain in the center of the patio
 

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#19 ·
I'm re-doing the whole dig and going with a raised patio. I simply don't have the expertise to do a sunken patio and can't afford to have it done for me professionally. Didn't realize how daunting it would be till I was standing in the hole.

I am going to backfill with the native dirt/clay compacted down every few inches as I re-fill and then will use about 4" of Class V rock and 1" of paver patio sand. I am going to build the wall and then fill to about 7" of the top to allow for the Class V, sand and pavers.

I'm going to get going on refilling that hole later today.
 
#20 ·
kyassassin, personally I would highly recommend not backfilling with the soil you just took out of the hole. It is going to be a tall task to get it compacted correctly. If it was me I would use the same base rock you are going to use. If you do not get it compacted correctly you are almost guaranteed to have setting in your pavers and walls, which is not something you want. Clay has the ability to compact, but it retains an enormous amount of water and is almost guaranteed to settle. You are also going to need to use some geo-textile fabric as a separation fabric to keep your base material separate from the earth.

Why not just complete the dig in the manner you have done so and then use the retaining wall blocks to raise the patio level slightly above the existing grade and then backfill the whole thing with base rock. Yes, it will be more expensive, but you have have much better results and a patio that will be there forever.

What you are doing right now is not as hard as you think, it just takes a little more planning. If you need some guidance and tips you can contact me and I would be glad to help you out...I own a hardscaping company btw.
 
#21 ·
Crap. What in the hell have I done? :(

Could I fill in part of the hole with the soil and use part of the rock? I have ordered 2 tons of dense grade aggregate #57 (that's what the quarry man recommended) to be delivered. The guy estimated that I would need about 1.75 tons for the project so I'll have a little bit extra. Should I just get more? It is only about $9 a ton.

I realize that it might settle a little bit but I also worry that the rock would do the same.
 
#22 ·
The foundation for the wall blocks and the base for the pavers should be 3/4" modified stone (aka crush and run) and you need #57 stone for drain stone behind the retaining walls. If you use crush and run for the wall fountation and the paver base and you tamp it with a machine plate compactor in 2-3" lifts and you lightly wet it you will have no settling.

Using soil for the backfill for pavers will definitely result in settling and probably more than you think. Have you ever seen a trench dug for utilities such as power, pipes, ect.....? When the trench is backfilled with dirt and compacted with a jumping jack tamper you almost always still have settling and that is with no weight on it, so imagine putting 4" of rock, 1" of bedding sand, and then the pavers.

You can do your patio the way you were doing it, suken down. But you just need to add a drain some where on the patio to allow the water to drain. It looks like you have a good slope going from left to right is you are looking at the house, so you can easily drain the water away. With a little bit of planning and some patients you can have this problem fixed.

If you are willing and can afford the cost of raising the patio slightly, that is probably the best option and can easily be done, you are just going to need more base rock, and maybe a few more retaing wall blocks for the side that runs parallel to the house.

If you want, take some more pictures and give me some meassurements and I can figure up what exactly you need and tell you exactly how to do it. Truely it is not that hard, it just takes some hard manual labor. My e-mail address is monumentallandscapes@gmail.com .
 
#23 ·
So if I were to fill this back in with the native soil how would you rec that I do it? Right now I am thinking that I could fill a couple of inches and add a little water and then compact it down with the manual stomper that I bought.

I might try to call and see how much a plate compacter would cost for the week.
 
#26 ·
Hey KyAssassin, stop beating yourself up.

Personally I would take a little time to review all your options. ie. What do you need to do to put in the lower patio and retaining wall (foundation, drainage?). What you would need to do for a raised patio? ETC...

Whatever you do, don't rush into making a decision until you know all the details.

I do think BeranBr is giving you some very sound advice on the backfilling. I wouldn't put a patio on ground that is backfilled with soil. If anything, backfill it with rock as indicated by Beranbr.

Good luck with this and be sure to keep us updated with photos and such. This is going to look fantastic when you get it done.
 
#27 ·
Thanks for all the replies. I think I have found a solution that will work better and solve my problems.

First, I had a buddy come over tonight and he and I filled the hole almost completely up (probably over 2/3rds full) with the dirt I removed. We tamped it down the best we could.

Now for the solution --- tell me what you think.

I am going to shift the entire patio to the right so that it is directly in front of the covered patio (and NOT the bay window). This will put it on solid ground and not over the ground that I just repacked. I'll be able to re-grade the packed soil so that it is level with the top of the new paver patio.

The patio will have a wall around at least the right side and side parallel to the house. The left side might also have a small wall, if needed. I'll build some stairs eventually off the patio onto the lawn.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I am reading everything you say and am open to further ideas/criticisms.

Let me know what you think.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Well, I put in the patio.

2 friends and I worked 8 hours today in the mud and rain to get this thing finished.

We started by re-grading the slope putting most of the dirt from the top of the hill to the bottom of the hill.

Then we used a vibrating plate compacter.

Then I laid about 4 inches of gravel for the base.

Then the compacter again.

Then we used about an inch of leveling sand for the pavers. We laid a little over 100 square feet of Reading Rock pavers.

http://www.readingrock.com/hardscapes/product.aspx?productid=3
Hampton Blend



Next I used the paver retaining border nailed every 3rd or 4th hole to line the edges.

Then I laid a little more of the leveling sand on top of the pavers.

Then the compacter again.

Finally I temporarily laid the sod along the edge of the patio. Along the highest edge I am going to use retaining block to build a small planter bed.

Overall I am very happy. The patio have about a 1" slope from high to low both left to right and top to bottom.

I am glad that this nightmare is at least a little closer to being completed.

(View from the porch --- it was way too muddy to get a yard pic after I had cleaned up. The pavers are actually a brown/earthtone color. The gray that you see is the leveling sand that I tried to get in the cracks with the compacter. I'll sweep that off when it dries and give the patio a good hand cleaning before I seal it with a glossy seal)
 
#32 ·
Wasn't able to do much today as it was still very wet. I was able to clean off the patio with the pressure sprayer for a few pics. The week I am going to start on a planter bed retaining wall on both sides of the highest corner of the patio and eventually I think I am going to add some stairs.

So far so good... This thing is rock solid and there isn't one paver that is wobbly.


 
#35 ·
Worked my ass off today after work and was able to get the retaining wall/planter finished.

Used some sort of super human strength glue between each rock. I'm really happy with how it turned out.

Still too wet today to use the supersand. However I have 2 bags of beige waiting to go tomorrow.

Pictures were taken just before dark.


 
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