From Lawn to Stone Bed--

jsheridan · 09-05-2011, 07:52 AM

Hello folks, I live in a seaside community where stone lawns/beds are pretty common. My neighbor, a senior widow, has a shaded front lawn where the grass really struggles. She asked me if I knew anyone who could put a stone bed down. I thought it was probably something I could do, and asked her son if he wanted to do it together. He said get the info and let's do it. She has some shrubs that do well so we'll need to do a layout. Any pointers as to what to do with the current lawn, liner needed, or general info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Joe

jsheridan · 09-09-2011, 10:40 PM

Man, eighty five people have been past this thread and nobody has any clue as to how to prepare and turn a lawn into a crushed stone yard? I'd expect that if I asked a question about the genome project. And seven people know how to turn a bog into a pond?

Up to 93 passers-by.

**oh'mike** · 09-10-2011, 06:11 AM

O.K. Joe----I missed this one---so did Chrisn and a few others----

I'll change the title to 'getting stoned and rocking' that will do it.

Clean up or Round up first--it kills from contact with the leaves,so protect the bushes and other plants---no fear of getting it on the roots as it only kills through the leaves.

Next cover the area with a landscape fabric--that will allow water to pass but not allow weeds to sprout.

Last--the gravel---

You want me to gussy up that title? "Want to stone elderly neighbor!"

jsheridan · 09-10-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike

O.K. Joe----I missed this one---so did Chrisn and a few others----

I'll change the title to 'getting stoned and rocking' that will do it.

Clean up or Round up first--it kills from contact with the leaves,so protect the bushes and other plants---no fear of getting it on the roots as it only kills through the leaves.

Next cover the area with a landscape fabric--that will allow water to pass but not allow weeds to sprout.

Last--the gravel---

You want me to gussy up that title? "Want to stone elderly neighbor!"

Thanks Mike, maybe it is in the marketing.
So the Round Up will kill the grass and any active weeds. Is there any type of fastener system to tie down the fabric? And is one fabric better quality than another as far as weed blocking, or all they all basically the same? I would like to outline the lawn with some type of containment system to define the edges and the carve outs for the shrubs, any thoughts on that? This is probably all stuff I can learn at HD, wherever, but hoping for some personal insight as to pitfalls and best choices. The guy helping me at HD may have been selling paint the week before. How's that for having it both ways? Thanks Mike.

**oh'mike** · 09-10-2011, 07:58 AM

I'm no landscape guy----I have an acre of trees and just enough grass to need a mower.

The fabric has a couple of different permiabilities,I believe.

Long plastic barbed spikes should be available by the bag full where the fabric is sold--this helps to keep the stuff where it belongs.

As to edging----Lots of choices--plastic--steel---and paving stones---

Read the labels on the plant killers--make sure I haven't given you the wrong name---

Dang--we have a bunch of knowledgeable gardeners here----

How about this," Elderly neighbor wants to get stoned and is tired of grass." ---Mike---

jsheridan · 09-10-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike

How about this," Elderly neighbor wants to get stoned and is tired of grass." ---Mike---

Classic.

I'm open to all and any suggestions. I'm just trying to understand basics about what's involved and what's available so I don't get sold whatever they happen to have on hand. I want it done right and look great.

**oh'mike** · 09-10-2011, 09:06 AM

Coming right up! ( If I get banned for changing the title at least I'll get a good laugh first)---No luck---changed it back--

Blondesense · 09-10-2011, 10:00 AM

Not a gardener here, but I recently moved some roses and put down landscape fabric first. I thought I was doing a good thing by going green and bought some made of recycled products. The problem is it was a weird color and it is showing through the mulch in spots.

My two cents is to pay attention to the color of the fabric too. It may show in spots.

chrisn · 09-10-2011, 01:46 PM

OK OK, Help is here

What Mike has already said is mostly true, just ditch the "weed control" fabric idea. It does not work so well.Over time, dirt etc, gets into the stone bed and the weeds just grow on top of the fabric. Then you have a deal of a time pulling up all the loose stones, getting out the dirt and starting over. Edging is found at the local Lowe's, also with metal pins to hold it down. Use a good 3 or 4 maybe more inches of stone, gravel, whatever and have a little bottle of Roundup saved for when the weeds pop up. The plastic edging will need to sit in the hot sun for awhile to make it ply-able (sp), That is all I can think of and again, my fingers are tired. That's twice today and I have not done my evening look see yet.I need to get back to real work.

sdsester · 09-10-2011, 02:21 PM

Sorry. I missed the post also. I type this before my plan to pull out the white pillow and commit sepico! It would not be the same though without a zen sand garden or a small lawn? And I don't know any sumurai to lop my head off here.

People do underestimate what it takes to maintain a rock surface landscape and all forget that you lose the insulation and surface cooling value plants add. You will be adding heat to around the house that may be reflected more than you expect toward the house, especially with lighter colored rock.

I am not sure I fully agree with Chrisn you should not dig down 10-12 inches, lay down a layer of quality plastic or landscape fabric, then a sand and gravel bed and then put the stones you will live with in place. I do fully agree that if you plan to "set and forget" and get this landscape idea you will get at best---not decades---but a few years out of the landscape fabric so those stones will have to come up. If you want to do this, I would plan carefully and not order more of them than you need for the look you want.

Now look, I have designed some myself and have seen especially beautiful rock landscapes in places where it is just too hot to grow much and people no better than to waste water. They never seem quite in place when they just replace green for reasons of not wanting to maintain a lawn.

I left the landscape business as a designer in Northern California when people decided rock gardens were the way to deal with dry spells and so forth. Nonsense. I am also the first one to appreciate expansive lawns are in IMO are environmentally responsible. Of course I like seeing nice lawns in front of houses, or in back of them but not poorly maintained ones and with no kids around to play on all 9,000sf anymore. You can plan a gorgeous landscape with minimal watering needs getting rid of the lawn. You do not have to go to extremes with the rock beds. Think some nice ground covers and maybe some rocks. Add a boulder and nice tree to take out the need for lawn maintenance once you add some zilch maintenance groundcovers suitable to your climate that do not have to be mowed.

Talk with your local nursery if the box stores have not put their design divisions out of business. They will help you figure out possible alternatives. Your landscape supplier from whom you expected nice looking rock may have some people you should talk with too. PM me and will pull the list of landscape designers in your area for free.

Again, if a rock landscape is what you want? Go for it. Just make sure you know your motives. I took care of my Mom's house for ages. Darn lawns and their irrigation systems. Why she, blind as a bat, needed in bent grass surface in back baffled me. Payments to the gardener were what my cousins were paying for a mortgage. If I could have poured concrete and put rock around the whole place? Of course I could not have done it.

jsheridan · 09-13-2011, 07:38 AM

guys, thanks for the feedback. I haven't abandoned the thread, it will be picked up soon. We met at the lawn yesterday and roughed out some ideas, now I have to make a plan. We have settled on a stone type. SD, thanks for the point about ground cover, we discussed that and she's not hip to that approach. Chrisn, what do you think the longer term difference is with ditching the fabric versus using it, as far as weed development and control? Is weed development the same, basically, either way? Thanks to all.
Joe

chrisn · 09-13-2011, 06:20 PM

From what I have done and seen in my own yard, the first year or so it stays pretty clean but after that, as I said the dirt and crap gets in the stones and weeds grow. I would never go through the trouble an expense again of the weed " barrier", But that is just my take on it. Ask the nursery guys

jsheridan · 09-23-2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn

From what I have done and seen in my own yard, the first year or so it stays pretty clean but after that, as I said the dirt and crap gets in the stones and weeds grow. I would never go through the trouble an expense again of the weed " barrier", But that is just my take on it. Ask the nursery guys

Chris, I went to a landscape supply yard, the owner is also a land/hardscaper. I asked him about your point with the weed barrier. He thought your point was valid, but he said the barrier also helps to prevent the stone from sinking into the dirt. It was his opinion that in spite of the drawbacks, it's better to use. The guy spent about an hour helping me plan this out and giving me all the prices I needed.
I have this question: I have shrubs that measure about 8 ft round. What size area underneath/surround would/should the mulch diameter be? Better yet, is there a rule of thumb for the area surrounding trees, shrubs, plant beds, that the mulch should cover? I have a tree that is one foot across, not circumference, what size surround should I create? Thanks.

chrisn · 09-24-2011, 05:00 AM

Well, the landscape guy is right( I guess) about the rocks sinking( how far are they going to sink?) but anyway, the mulch. I don't think there is any formula, just put it where it looks best, BUT, do not put mulch directly up against the trunk of any tree or shrub. It just makes a highway for bad critters to get to them.You will see it mounded up around the trees in malls and such, making it easier to weed wack around them. You will also see them replacing dead trees a lot.