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NewHomeDIYGuy 12-05-2012 02:39 PM

Installing underground drainage for gutters
 
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Ok, recently had my gutters and downspouts redone and am looking to get rid of the ugly black flex drain tubing that sits on top of the dirt from the downspouts. This sounds like a good day's work for myself.

I have a good idea what I need to do, but just wanted to plan everything out beforehand. The plan is to use 2 4" PVC drain pipes (one for each downspout) buried just below grade that run about 24-28' towards the back of the yard and have it dump to the surface there. But, a few questions I had like what thickness pvc would be fine, schedule 40 or even 35? I wasn't sure how to handle the drain, but it seems like digging a ditch 2'+ deep at the end of the run, filling it w/ gravel, and installing a T and a pop up or even just grate isn't such a bad idea. Like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFtBTDLqfeQ

Is this the proper way to install a buried gutter drain? I was originally thinking of installing it w/o the ditch full of gravel, but that would allow water to sit in the pipe at all times which sounds like a bad idea. Any thoughts or suggestions? I've attached an old picture of the backyard for reference. You can see the downspouts on the sides of the house. Thanks!

cleveman 12-05-2012 09:10 PM

I would just use non-perforated drainage tile for a while as it gets away from the home (12'), then switch to perforated after that. Once you get some good turf growing near the drain, you won't have to worry about anything.

NewHomeDIYGuy 12-06-2012 08:05 AM

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Cleveman,

Thanks for your input. Can I ask why you'd recommend drainage tile vs. pvc? Anyone I've asked recommends pvc over drainage tile. Oh ya, I forgot to mention in my original post that I was planning on installing cleanouts (45 degree angle Y tube w/ a cap on it) before the pvc went into the ground by the downspouts. I realize it might be a little overkill, but the added cost and work is really minimal. The picture I posted is old, but there is currently a deck that takes up almost the entire backyard now. Having the drain end towards the very end of the yard would get it a few feet past the deck, and I wouldn't want to use perforated drainage tile for the last few feet to avoid the deck footings getting soaked. The plan in the spring is to install a patio for most of the back yard, and only leave little grass beyond that. That's why I want to bury the drain.

Here's a picture while the deck was under construction from the opposite side, but it gives a better idea of what I'm working with. The deck stairs/landing goes out ~20' from the house, and the fence is about 7-8' beyond that.

Done That 12-06-2012 08:39 AM

In my neck of the woods it's almost always done with drain tile like cleveman said. Extended mine some 3 years ago this way over 50' two different runs, no problems. I did however do the trenching in the spring after a good rain to make it easy as possible.

NewHomeDIYGuy 12-06-2012 08:49 AM

Donethat,

I understand why you'd use regular drain tile if you have a lot more space and soil for the water to be absorbed into.. If I had a bigger backyard using perforated drain tile past a certain point would make a lot of sense, but with a patio and little actual grass, I want to get the water to the end of the property and have it dump back there. As it is, the area under the deck turns into a mud pit when it rains..

cleveman 12-06-2012 09:04 AM

You can certainly use schedule 40 pvc if you like. I think it will in fact be more heavy duty.

I think we use the flex drainage tile because it is less expensive, flexible (curves), and there always seems to be some lying around. It is also easy to cut the ends off later (shorter).

Done That 12-06-2012 09:06 AM

Sorry, I'm just not following why you can't use non-perforated for the entire run. Don't think there is anything wrong with doing pvc, just a bit more cost and effort in my mind.

I have one section of mine done with pvc sch 40 because it was running thru and under a large section of concrete driveway. We just cut the end at a 45 angle and let it spill on the ground.

Anyway sounds like you are on the right path and either approach works fine. Just wanted to let you know drain tile is an acceptable option to many.

NewHomeDIYGuy 12-06-2012 09:27 AM

Thanks for the opinions guys. I understand I CAN use non-perforated for the entire run, it's just I was leaning towards pvc because of the extra durability and the fact that it can be snaked if need be. It might be a bit overkill, but I tend to err on the side of overdone. I like the idea of never having to redo it or worry about it. The material cost difference is going to be probably ~$60 or so, and that seems like a drop in the bucket all things considered, especially if I'm doing it all myself so free labor. Thanks!

Bondo 12-06-2012 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHomeDIYGuy (Post 1067482)
Thanks for the opinions guys. I understand I CAN use non-perforated for the entire run, it's just I was leaning towards pvc because of the extra durability and the fact that it can be snaked if need be. It might be a bit overkill, but I tend to err on the side of overdone. I like the idea of never having to redo it or worry about it. The material cost difference is going to be probably ~$60 or so, and that seems like a drop in the bucket all things considered, especially if I'm doing it all myself so free labor. Thanks!

Ayuh,... It appears to me, that you don't clearly understand how drainage plastic flex tiles work...
Quote:

I understand why you'd use regular drain tile if you have a lot more space and soil for the water to be absorbed into.. If I had a bigger backyard using perforated drain tile past a certain point would make a lot of sense, but with a patio and little actual grass, I want to get the water to the end of the property and have it dump back there. As it is, the area under the deck turns into a mud pit when it rains..
It doesn't so much disperse the water over the area it runs through, but Drains that area to the downhill end of the tile/ tube...

Water seeps Into the tile, 'n flows away...
Provided of course, there's reasonable pitch along it's full length, it'll add No water anywhere, but at the open lower end...

The heaviest traffic yer gonna get is Foot traffic,...
I'd go with the flex tile, 'bout a foot, 'n a half down, back-fill the trench with leach stone to within a couple inches, mound it up slightly(for settlement) with top dirt, 'n seed it...

NewHomeDIYGuy 12-06-2012 11:50 AM

Bondo,

It sounds like you're describing more of a french drain rather than just a downspout drain..? You're talking about using perforated drain tile where I'm just talking about using non-perforated at this point. I'm not interested in having water seep into the drain tile from surrounding soil, which is why I wanted to use PVC. I'm just concerned with dumping the downspout water. If all I'm doing is dumping downspout water, would I really need to backfill the trench with stone instead of just dirt? I wouldn't think so.

I realize now perforated drain tile probably does little to nothing in terms of draining water into the surrounding soil (which is why it's used for french drains), but either way that seems like a moot point for what I'm trying to do.

Bondo 12-06-2012 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHomeDIYGuy (Post 1067567)
Bondo,

It sounds like you're describing more of a french drain rather than just a downspout drain..? You're talking about using perforated drain tile where I'm just talking about using non-perforated at this point. I'm not interested in having water seep into the drain tile from surrounding soil, which is why I wanted to use PVC. I'm just concerned with dumping the downspout water. If all I'm doing is dumping downspout water, would I really need to backfill the trench with stone instead of just dirt? I wouldn't think so.

I realize now perforated drain tile probably does little to nothing in terms of draining water into the surrounding soil (which is why it's used for french drains), but either way that seems like a moot point for what I'm trying to do.

Ok, so skip the stone, 'n refer to the Cost factor....

Perforated drain tile is cheap, 'n snakeable if lain properly...

Alota easier to work with too...

jomama45 12-06-2012 06:55 PM

I'd go with you gut on this one and simply use the PVC, either sch. 40 or 35, and never worry about repairing it. If you do decide to go with corrugated, you're going to have to bed plenty of stone around it, meaning you're going to have to dig even deeper, and you'll have the additional cost of the extra stone. Not to mention, you probably need to drain it "to daylight, so the additional depth may not allow that. Also, if you don't get at least 8-10" of decent soil over the stone, every short dry spell in Summer will result in yellow grass over your trench. Ask me how I know............:laughing:

lwendt 12-09-2012 06:12 PM

I agree with your post. Use Sched.40. You can keep better grade using a simple level so no water will be trappped and it will drain fast and completely.
Snaking corregated drain tile is NOT simple and may ruin the tile. Sched. 35 or 40, no problem. Spend the extra and put in the best solution. You must have sufficient slope such that draining the intermediate area is not a problem. If not you can install an intermediate drop box.

Seattle2k 12-20-2012 02:10 PM

I vote PVC. I have corrugated non-perf running under my lawn. Several are now clogged up with 20 years of decomposed leaves and who-knows-what else. The ridges trap all that crud.

fltdek 01-08-2013 12:18 AM

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Here are some before and after pictures of what I did. In the third picture, the red paver blocks are not there to cover the drain as the drain was filled in, they were temp put there to get them out of the way, and the soffit underneath the nook is pulled down for electrical wiring as the project was still under construction at the time. This worked great for me as now any water coming down the spouts gets directed underneath my deck and out to the side yard where it is lower lying ground.


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