Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Landscaping & Lawn Care

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-16-2012, 06:17 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


Hi all, when using High Performance Bedding (HPB), after pouring it and spreading it out and leveling it, do you need to compact it with that machine? the guys doing my interlocking said you are not supposed to. I read on the internet that you don't need to compact it. i'm so used to thinking about compacting and letting the bedding sit for a few days so it gets compacted and all that stuff. its very hard to imagine laying and spreading all the gravel and then immediately start laying the pavers on it. is HPB generally not compacted before laying the pavers?

baneling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 07:38 AM   #2
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,755
Rewards Points: 10
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


What is the HPB and how is it being used? Is it just a polymeric sand that is hyped up and put in a bag? I have never seen it used on a large, critical paving project.

A proper interlocking concrete paving installation starts with a 4" to 6" of COMPACTED base material graded to reflect any desired drainage pattern. Following that there is a UNIFORM 1" layer of concrete sand that is screeded off and NOT COMPACTED. After the pavers are set with tight joints (real interlocking pavers have vertical ribs on the lower 2/3 of the sides to insure uniform tight joints). The next step spreading a small amount of fine sand over the surface and use a vibrating plate compacter to true up the surface and draw sand into the joints to create the interlock for strength and stability.

Do not forget the edge restraint (plastic, steel or aluminum) and that can be put in before, during or after after the pavers are set in place, but before the final vibration. The timing of edge restraint depends on the area size, straight or curved pattern paver shape. On large parking areas, I have the seen the pavers set in place without edge restraint and then marked in place for the edge contours and the sawed in place with a gas powered saw with a diamond blade followed by the edge restraint, surface sanding and vibration.

Is the guy a Certified Paver Installer (icpi.org)?

Dick


Last edited by concretemasonry; 08-17-2012 at 07:56 AM.
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #3
DIY-er
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 148
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


There is no harm in compacting HPB the same as regular aggregate. The only difference between the two is that the granular sizes are smaller in HPB, making it stronger if used for driveways.
KevinPh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 11:01 AM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


I doubt they did all that. i don't know if he's certified. he did a project at our last house and did a good job so we hired him again for our new house. its all done now, they finished yesterday. it looks good. hopefully it will still look good a few years from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
What is the HPB and how is it being used? Is it just a polymeric sand that is hyped up and put in a bag? I have never seen it used on a large, critical paving project.

A proper interlocking concrete paving installation starts with a 4" to 6" of COMPACTED base material graded to reflect any desired drainage pattern. Following that there is a UNIFORM 1" layer of concrete sand that is screeded off and NOT COMPACTED. After the pavers are set with tight joints (real interlocking pavers have vertical ribs on the lower 2/3 of the sides to insure uniform tight joints). The next step spreading a small amount of fine sand over the surface and use a vibrating plate compacter to true up the surface and draw sand into the joints to create the interlock for strength and stability.

Do not forget the edge restraint (plastic, steel or aluminum) and that can be put in before, during or after after the pavers are set in place, but before the final vibration. The timing of edge restraint depends on the area size, straight or curved pattern paver shape. On large parking areas, I have the seen the pavers set in place without edge restraint and then marked in place for the edge contours and the sawed in place with a gas powered saw with a diamond blade followed by the edge restraint, surface sanding and vibration.

Is the guy a Certified Paver Installer (icpi.org)?

Dick
baneling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 11:01 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


by the way, this is in Canada.
baneling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 01:37 PM   #6
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,755
Rewards Points: 10
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


After looking at the HPB on Google, I finally found HPB in addition for many other products with the same initials.

Apparently it is a crushed limestone that is common in the greater Toronto area. It is "branded" as HPB, but it is really just a washed 3/8" crushed limestone that can be used as a base. The only drawback is the it has no fines/sand and can possibly migrate into the lower native soil or the soil can work into it, which may result in and low volumes of the soil and HPB and can be put in place without compaction, but may settle slightly in the future. According to most standards (ICPI, etc.), it is not recommended to have interlocking concrete paversd sitting on any thing except a sand setting bed with surface sand vibrated into the joints to create the real long term strength and stability. For a patio, what they are doing would probably be adequate, but not for a driveway, street or heavier loadings. Compacted road base is recommended asd a base under the sand setting bed and paver for driveways and heavier use.

It is ironic that my first exposure to pavers was in the early 1970's in Toronto because the Canadians were ahead of the U.S.A. at the time in the use of European manufacturing equipment that was developed because of the large use of pavers in Europe in every possible way then and today. There are some great examples of pavers there that were installed prior to 1970, including a library that has pavers for wide, expansive entry that seemed to flow under the glass doors into the interior of the building. Obviously, they used different methods inside and outside. The Interlocking Concrete Paving Institute (ICPI) had it roots in the Toronto/Hamilton area. My other good memories were going to a Mapleleafs games and sitting the Primeau's seats with my friends (sons or nephews of "little rough and tough" Joe Primeau).

Dick

Last edited by concretemasonry; 08-17-2012 at 01:39 PM.
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 08:43 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


this link says that used this method to do the parking lot at a Ford plant.

http://www.capbrick.com/perfomance_bedding.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
but not for a driveway, street or heavier loadings. Compacted road base is recommended asd a base under the sand setting bed and paver for driveways and heavier use.
Dick
baneling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 08:46 AM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


by the way, when they had the HPB in a pile on my driveway, I took a close look at it and there was fines/sand in it. so I have a feeling it wasn't HPB. i didn't ask them about it because I wasn't sure at the time and I didn't pay extra for them to only use HPB (even though I asked them and they said yes). it could be that they used the usual gravel first and put some HPB on top, but I'm not sure. the same company did some landscaping at our old house and they did a good job anyways.
baneling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 10:34 AM   #9
DIY-er
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 148
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


Incredible that you didn't have to pay extra for it, because it normally is 3 times more. The contractor must have had some left over from a previous job.

HPB is used in commercial jobs in Toronto under interlocking and stone pavers that will have vehicular traffic on top. Usually landscape fabric is placed on top of the HPB so that a 1" layer of sand can be placed on top as the setting bed for the pavers. The HPB is compacted before laying the fabric.
KevinPh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #10
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,755
Rewards Points: 10
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


The uniform 1" thick clean sand setting bed is critical to getting a strong, smooth surface and long term stability.

Dick
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


maybe he really didn't give me HPB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinPh View Post
Incredible that you didn't have to pay extra for it, because it normally is 3 times more. The contractor must have had some left over from a previous job.
baneling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 0
Default

High Performance Bedding - compacting needed?


I just had my backyard patio regraded and the contractor used HPB. This is 3/8" clean rock that can only be compacted up to 96% as per the store where it was purchased. I used some HPB to regrade my driveway as it had some depressions near the edge of the sidewalk. Hopefully I will not have any issues in the future. I have a question regarding a walkway that I have to regrade. The walkway is along the side of my house and has sunk 2" so that rain water now goes towards the house instead of away from it. Can I simply add 2 inches of concrete sand to bring the level back to where it should be and then compact it with a plate compactor.

Gino45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vent Sure High Performance Slant Back Roof Vent Alto Roofing/Siding 4 07-04-2010 12:06 PM
Recommendations needed for high security entry doors wolfsberg74 Building & Construction 2 05-03-2010 09:09 PM
HPB High Performance Bedding is super KUIPORNG Landscaping & Lawn Care 29 07-25-2009 06:35 AM
2 foot high cinder retaining wall, foundation needed? average_male Landscaping & Lawn Care 8 06-01-2009 05:14 PM
HPB - High Performance Bedding KUIPORNG Landscaping & Lawn Care 0 06-23-2008 01:05 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.