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rabih_00 08-25-2008 01:52 PM

Drainage for my paver patio
 
I am currently working on building my stone patio. I have had a bobcat come in and dig it for me (too lazy). after few rain falls, I realized that one of the corner away from the house is the lowest spot and all the water is going and settling there (I have clay coil), forming a puddle of water. luckily this is 13-15 feet away frmo the foundation and my patio is sloppwed away from my house, but never the less, I am concerned about frost (Ontario , canada weather).

What do you guys thing? what;s going to happen if I keep this as is, or do you recommend a draining pipe further away from the patio to the corner?

PS: the depth is around 8-10 inches

Thanks

KUIPORNG 08-25-2008 03:04 PM

Did such spot also be the case before you dig?
 
Do you know if such spot you are talking about also is the lowest spot before the digging.... that is... it does not direct water anywhere else... such as your neighbour, the street...etc....?

Normally you will see a lot of spots collecting water after digging... it is the finished surface that count... as although digging is generally follow the guideline of the finished surface... but it is not perfectly follow practically...

so it is the finishing surface you should considered... ideally, there should not be any spot on the patio surface which will hold any water... anyplace that hold water will have high possiblility of weeds....

rabih_00 08-25-2008 03:18 PM

No such spots before digging. and even if there was any, it would be hard to spot them with a thick lawn.

I figured it would be very hard to maintain a leveled ground after digging, but I was kind of concerned what's going to happen if water stands still beneath the pavers. now I assume water will slide away from the patio to the lawn and not sit under the bricks with no where else to go.

Having said that, I think I will still try to throw in some dug up dirt to try to level it as much as possible.

concretemasonry 08-25-2008 04:29 PM

"dug up dirt" is really not a solution to any problem especially if you want to put something on it. - It is usually the last thing you want to use except grow grass on it in SOME cases.

Allison1888 08-25-2008 09:19 PM

drainage
 
Can you add a decorative gravel area or some other drainage area around the patio, as well as adding dirt, so you are extending the water out over a larger area?

KUIPORNG 08-26-2008 08:26 AM

you may worry too much ....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rabih_00 (Post 151637)
No such spots before digging. and even if there was any, it would be hard to spot them with a thick lawn.

I figured it would be very hard to maintain a leveled ground after digging, but I was kind of concerned what's going to happen if water stands still beneath the pavers. now I assume water will slide away from the patio to the lawn and not sit under the bricks with no where else to go.

Having said that, I think I will still try to throw in some dug up dirt to try to level it as much as possible.

after finishing... I can tell you base on experience... no water or hardly any can penetrate underneath the pavers... with all the polymeric sand in place... water cannot go through them... so there is really no space for water.... even water penetrated... remember, you have HPB... that guy occpied 90% or more of the volume... so there is no room for water.... you really need to concentrate on your final shape and slope and how water flow... this is extremely important... yesterday when I turn on the hose to wash some equipments, I found every single bit of water is flowing towards the drain hole I installed... nothing penetrated beneath the pavers... this is not the case before I installed the joint sand..... I would think I would have a disaster if I didn't slope it properly and I am so glad that I did....

rabih_00 08-26-2008 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUI****G (Post 151905)
after finishing... I can tell you base on experience... no water or hardly any can penetrate underneath the pavers... with all the polymeric sand in place... water cannot go through them... so there is really no space for water.... even water penetrated... remember, you have HPB... that guy occpied 90% or more of the volume... so there is no room for water.... you really need to concentrate on your final shape and slope and how water flow... this is extremely important... yesterday when I turn on the hose to wash some equipments, I found every single bit of water is flowing towards the drain hole I installed... nothing penetrated beneath the pavers... this is not the case before I installed the joint sand..... I would think I would have a disaster if I didn't slope it properly and I am so glad that I did....

How much did you slope it by? did you use strings? I am trying to do that, but my 2 year old keeps on stepping on them, he insists on staying outside with me when I do the work :)

I started laying down the bricks and using a 4' leveler to make sure it is slopped away from the house, I gave up on the strings thing.. not sure if this is a good idea or not, it looks good so far though.

KUIPORNG 08-26-2008 10:24 AM

slope and...
 
I slope by approx 1" every four feet... but just approx... more on less depends on where... but once the slope is fix... it is being tried to make sure be the same across the line... no up and down.. try not to be ... and yes for slope away from house, should be at least 1" every 4 ft.... I understand the 2 years old thing... got same problem... I only used strings for digging... when I do the laying I don't use strings at all... I adhere the 4' level on a straight 2x4 with one end raise by 1" by putting a small piece of wood in between then use tape to do the attaching.... then put the structure down on the floor, the level should indicate level.... a techinque I learned from don't remember where....

slope is one important aspect... have you figure out how your water exiting to stree drain or anywhere else... got to figure that in your mind... it is very important...

good lucks....

rabih_00 08-26-2008 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUI****G (Post 151933)
I slope by approx 1" every four feet... but just approx... more on less depends on where... but once the slope is fix... it is being tried to make sure be the same across the line... no up and down.. try not to be ... and yes for slope away from house, should be at least 1" every 4 ft.... I understand the 2 years old thing... got same problem... I only used strings for digging... when I do the laying I don't use strings at all... I adhere the 4' level on a straight 2x4 with one end raise by 1" by putting a small piece of wood in between then use tape to do the attaching.... then put the structure down on the floor, the level should indicate level.... a techinque I learned from don't remember where....

slope is one important aspect... have you figure out how your water exiting to stree drain or anywhere else... got to figure that in your mind... it is very important...

good lucks....



I haven't figured it out yet.. but I never had a drain before the patio .. at least not in my yard..the ground was slopped in a way to drive the water away from the house.. either between me and my neighbor, or to the greenbelt behind the house .. what do you think I should do though?

The patio will be raised due to poor planning when digging and after that building the steps, I do not mind it raised though, but I am not sure if that would introduce any drainage problem.

I beleive you had yours slopped to one corner and installed a drain pipe?

Right?

KUIPORNG 08-26-2008 11:53 AM

I am not sure when you mean raised
 
if you raise your patio, I think you need retaining wall block to raise it... otherwise, how do you raise it... yes my is direct water all to one corner at the far end then through underground pipe back to the entry door of the yard..... you should think about your before picture, when there is a thunderstorm... when do you see the trail of water.... in my case... water are flowing along side my house and my neighbour house, in the narrow path to the street.... you should picture yourse and make sure your finished product does not disturbed such original path as when a house is built they have design such... and you should retain such design.... if you alter it.... legally they can ask you to revert... I meant the goveronment.... or if your neighbour complain you change such path... you may need to revert it....

rabih_00 08-26-2008 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUI****G (Post 151956)
if you raise your patio, I think you need retaining wall block to raise it... otherwise, how do you raise it... yes my is direct water all to one corner at the far end then through underground pipe back to the entry door of the yard..... you should think about your before picture, when there is a thunderstorm... when do you see the trail of water.... in my case... water are flowing along side my house and my neighbour house, in the narrow path to the street.... you should picture yourse and make sure your finished product does not disturbed such original path as when a house is built they have design such... and you should retain such design.... if you alter it.... legally they can ask you to revert... I meant the goveronment.... or if your neighbour complain you change such path... you may need to revert it....


I am raising it using AB junior blocks. Not by much though, few inches maybe. I will also be building raised flower beds along side the fence, will this affect the fence itself as dirt now will be against the fence itself? would it be better if I put a plastic sheet in between the fence and the dirt for protection?

did you follow any specific method to slope the whole patio onto one corner to the drain? how deep did you dig for that drain pipe?

KUIPORNG 08-26-2008 12:56 PM

I see...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rabih_00 (Post 151973)
I am raising it using AB junior blocks. Not by much though, few inches maybe. I will also be building raised flower beds along side the fence, will this affect the fence itself as dirt now will be against the fence itself? would it be better if I put a plastic sheet in between the fence and the dirt for protection?

did you follow any specific method to slope the whole patio onto one corner to the drain? how deep did you dig for that drain pipe?

I put pressure tread wood board against the flower bed then dirt, then on top of the wood. I put nice curb stone so that wood is non-visible... I have those wood board because I taken down my builder provided small deck though, didn't buy it... and yes you need to do somthing to prevent dirt to go to the fence... my method work out quite well... I doubt you can just use plastic sheet to do it as it is rather frimsy....

building a drain system is easier than you thought... as long as you got the phsyical slope / geographical ...to support the idea... building it is really cheap and easy... not expensive at all... get those big flexible pipe from HD, I used 2 , cost me somthing like 5 bucks a piece... a vent.. and a couple of coupling connectors (plastic)... and it is done... somthing like less than $30 bucks... yes you need to do some digging.... and this is the harder part... but I did mine approx 2 hours... not too bad....

and how deep do you dig to house the drain pipe is not really up to you... it depends on your geographic... your drain hole should be at a higher attitude than the drain exit... the difference in attitude in these two spots is approx how deep you need to dig.... different deepest in different spot too.. the idea you need to put the pipe down and water would flow down from the drain hole to the drain exit and nothing leave inside... but in my case... I have a bit up and down and there is some water left inside the pipe... so it is not ideal.. I am even a bit worrry moscretols live inside the pipe as there should be a little bit water inside but I may worry too much...


you may or may not need a drain like me.... as long as you find a path for your water to exit your yard...i.e. your patio surface.... remember... all water should not dump to any spot and expect it to disappear by going down the earth... may be your water is go to your neighbour's yard by design... if that is the case you don't need a drain ... but if this is not the case.... you are likely require one...

and yes all area go towards the drain.... like a black hole .... try to extract all water from any spot on the patio.... no water can escape else where except the from the drain hole.... not even through the patio edge... in my case.... Don't think you need to do such extreme... but I think this is the best/ideal way....because if water goes to the edge... drain hole lose its purpose... and that edge where water goes in probably be the weed growing playground...

rabih_00 08-26-2008 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUI****G (Post 151983)
I put pressure tread wood board against the flower bed then dirt, then on top of the wood. I put nice curb stone so that wood is non-visible... I have those wood board because I taken down my builder provided small deck though, didn't buy it... and yes you need to do somthing to prevent dirt to go to the fence... my method work out quite well... I doubt you can just use plastic sheet to do it as it is rather frimsy....

building a drain system is easier than you thought... as long as you got the phsyical slope / geographical ...to support the idea... building it is really cheap and easy... not expensive at all... get those big flexible pipe from HD, I used 2 , cost me somthing like 5 bucks a piece... a vent.. and a couple of coupling connectors (plastic)... and it is done... somthing like less than $30 bucks... yes you need to do some digging.... and this is the harder part... but I did mine approx 2 hours... not too bad....

and how deep do you dig to house the drain pipe is not really up to you... it depends on your geographic... your drain hole should be at a higher attitude than the drain exit... the difference in attitude in these two spots is approx how deep you need to dig.... different deepest in different spot too.. the idea you need to put the pipe down and water would flow down from the drain hole to the drain exit and nothing leave inside... but in my case... I have a bit up and down and there is some water left inside the pipe... so it is not ideal.. I am even a bit worrry moscretols live inside the pipe as there should be a little bit water inside but I may worry too much...


you may or may not need a drain like me.... as long as you find a path for your water to exit your yard...i.e. your patio surface.... remember... all water should not dump to any spot and expect it to disappear by going down the earth... may be your water is go to your neighbour's yard by design... if that is the case you don't need a drain ... but if this is not the case.... you are likely require one...

and yes all area go towards the drain.... like a black hole .... try to extract all water from any spot on the patio.... no water can escape else where except the from the drain hole.... not even through the patio edge... in my case.... Don't think you need to do such extreme... but I think this is the best/ideal way....because if water goes to the edge... drain hole lose its purpose... and that edge where water goes in probably be the weed growing playground...

Thanks for the tips.
I will look into it tonight.


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