Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-01-2012, 10:07 AM   #16
Stuck in the 70's
 
Blondesense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: south central Missouri
Posts: 2,048
Share |
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Changing it from a 1/1 to a 3/2 may get more people looking at it, but once they see the bedrooms are the size of closets it may not help you sell it.
I'm with Joe, get a local realtor to advise you. They will know what sells in the area, what is standard for your neighborhood, and what will give you the best return on your $$$'s.
Blondesense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:17 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 154
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondesense View Post
Changing it from a 1/1 to a 3/2 may get more people looking at it, but once they see the bedrooms are the size of closets it may not help you sell it.
I'm with Joe, get a local realtor to advise you. They will know what sells in the area, what is standard for your neighborhood, and what will give you the best return on your $$$'s.
Actually the MB is bigger than what the house had before, older homes had smaller rooms.

The gain in bedrooms is from the loss of a formal dinning room and wash room. It's more of moving things around.

When a bank did the comps about 6 years ago, I saw 1st hand the value of bedrooms vs formal dining rooms. The house did poorly because of the number of rooms. There was no value added for a separate wash room vs wash closet. The prior hallway was a complete waste of space because the bathroom was not original to the building. They actually had to make a hallway in order to get the the bathroom.

It's really just moving things around and how the space is being used. I'm thinking that future buyers are probably going to be investors looking to rent out. Having a bit bigger twin rooms might serve better for a roommate type rental, and return more money. In that case, it's not always small kids using the twin rooms.

The family has changed over the years. Single parents, adult kids living with parents, smaller family sizes, larger people...
KarlJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #18
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 6,210
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


To answer one of the 1st questions...this is from the LA County Building and Safety web site....

Quote:
MINIMUM ROOM DIMENSIONS: (CBC 310.6)
AT LEAST ONE ROOM 120 SF
ALL OTHER ROOMS EXCEPT
KITCHEN 70 SF WITH A MIN.
DIMENSION OF 7'-0"
Sounds like your going to be right on the ragged edge of 70 sq'.

With that said....a bedroom 8' wide is pretty small...put in one queen matress and you don't have much left over.

With that said....that much work unpermitted? Wow.....

I feel sorry for the potential buyers.....sorry, but I have to be honest....making rooms that small...no permits....makes me wonder what short cuts your going to do on electrical......sounds like a real hack to me....but that is my opinion.
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:02 PM   #19
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,641
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


If you are going on history or lack of codes, you can be left out in the woods.

There is dramatic increase in the use of home inspectors hired by both buyers and sellers, whether required or not. The inspection is not a code inspection, but an informative inspection regarding conditions, safety and the condition/age of major items like electrical systems, heating and AC systems, appliances, structural, roofing, exterior and above all, safety for purposes of estimating any costs the buyer may be faced with. Even if there is no local code, trip hazards, narrow hallways or inadequate egress may be noted. The report is owned by the potential buyer and can only be released with his permission (even to realtors).

This has become so important that many seller have a pre-listing inspection done by the toughest (and usually most expensive) inspectorto use as a guide for prepping the home before listing. Of course, the report is the property of the person hiring the inspector that cannot be released to anyone without permission.

Usually, areas of concern are "red flagged" for action to be taken by the person requesting the inspection. If you refuse a "pre-sale" inspection requested by a potential buyer that is a "red flag" that someone may be hiding something.

Like it or not, it done by both buyers and sellers to get the best deal.

Dick
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 154
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
To answer one of the 1st questions...this is from the LA County Building and Safety web site....



Sounds like your going to be right on the ragged edge of 70 sq'.

With that said....a bedroom 8' wide is pretty small...put in one queen matress and you don't have much left over.

With that said....that much work unpermitted? Wow.....

I feel sorry for the potential buyers.....sorry, but I have to be honest....making rooms that small...no permits....makes me wonder what short cuts your going to do on electrical......sounds like a real hack to me....but that is my opinion.
You are making an unfounded assumption about the quality of work of work without any facts to back it up. 'sounds like a real hack' is based on the amount of work? The house had two prong outlets, every one now has grounded outlets, grounded outlets are current code. Breakers vs fuses, breakers are a more modern thing and done well before I ever bought the house. No permit on file for the breaker upgrade.
Without seeing any of the work, you assume it's somehow a 'real hack' Yet it could be all within current code, you don't know.

The fact is that the prior plumbing was not insulated, it now is. The roof had no vents, it now has several vents. It's now fully grounded, these are not hacks, and I'm pretty sure they are current code and know they are better than before.

I don't understand why your opinion of someone else's work would be that it's a real hack without seeing anything, only based on the amount of work done. I just don't follow the logic used to arrive at your conclusion.

Plain and simply, this house is a bit larger than average for the area. The comps showed homes in the 800sq ft range having 3b/1b... that's just the way this area was built. I'm just trying to get the most usable layout for what it is.
KarlJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:56 PM   #21
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 12,915
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


10x10 or 12x12 is better. 8x8 is no room at all. Permits need to be pulled, drawings need to be made up, etc., before you should even attempt this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:01 PM   #22
Member
 
GBrackins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fairhaven, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,736
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


from the 2009 International Residential Code:

SECTION R304 MINIMUM ROOM AREAS

R304.1 Minimum area.
Every dwelling unit shall have at least one habitable room that shall have not less than 120 square feet (11 m2) of gross floor area.

R304.2 Other rooms.
Other habitable rooms shall have a floor area of not less than 70 square feet (6.5 m2).

Exception:
Kitchens.

R304.3 Minimum dimensions.
Habitable rooms shall not be less than 7 feet (2134 mm) in any horizontal dimension.

Exception:
Kitchens.

R304.4 Height effect on room area.
Portions of a room with a sloping ceiling measuring less than 5 feet (1524 mm) or a furred ceiling measuring less than 7 feet (2134 mm) from the finished floor to the finished ceiling shall not be considered as contributing to the minimum required habitable area for that room.
__________________
Gary

"You get what you pay for, and sometimes free costs more!"
GBrackins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:05 PM   #23
Member
 
GBrackins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fairhaven, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,736
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I don't understand why your opinion of someone else's work would be that it's a real hack without seeing anything
ask and it's answered ....

my reason for thinking that of some of the questioners on here (can't speak for anyone else) is if someone will take a short cut in circumventing having a permit then they will circumvent other things .... may be there is a fear that they short cuts would be caught by an inspector

I'll help posters to the best of my ability, but when I find them wanting to take shortcuts and bypass the safety aspects of permits (only way for you to know if work was done properly) then I'm less interested in helping, make sense?

good luck!
__________________
Gary

"You get what you pay for, and sometimes free costs more!"
GBrackins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:13 PM   #24
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 6,210
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
You are making an unfounded assumption about the quality of work of work without any facts to back it up. 'sounds like a real hack' is based on the amount of work? The house had two prong outlets, every one now has grounded outlets, grounded outlets are current code. Breakers vs fuses, breakers are a more modern thing and done well before I ever bought the house. No permit on file for the breaker upgrade.
Without seeing any of the work, you assume it's somehow a 'real hack' Yet it could be all within current code, you don't know.

The fact is that the prior plumbing was not insulated, it now is. The roof had no vents, it now has several vents. It's now fully grounded, these are not hacks, and I'm pretty sure they are current code and know they are better than before.

I don't understand why your opinion of someone else's work would be that it's a real hack without seeing anything, only based on the amount of work done. I just don't follow the logic used to arrive at your conclusion.

Plain and simply, this house is a bit larger than average for the area. The comps showed homes in the 800sq ft range having 3b/1b... that's just the way this area was built. I'm just trying to get the most usable layout for what it is.
I never made any reference to the quality of work.

The simple fact that you would even consider making rooms that small, leads me to also believe you would take shortcuts elsewhere....with electrical being one of them. With more bedrooms, you increase the likelyhood of more load on your existing panel. Ok...so maybe the panel has been upgraded from fuses to breakers....but what is the main breaker rating?

More bedrooms = more people = more power needed. Is the house electricaly heated? AC? More lighting?

As I also stated....it was an opinion....
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ddawg16 For This Useful Post:
GBrackins (11-01-2012)
Old 11-01-2012, 03:20 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,263
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


You aren't going to get much help on that age of structure in the land of codes and permits so I'd take the one piece of advise about working with a realtor and run with it.

My only other advise is hall way width. Do some research because too narrow is bad, real bad. That's a 2 bedroom house any way you cut it and doesn't every house need a computer room?
Fairview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:42 PM   #26
Member
 
GBrackins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fairhaven, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,736
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


and don't forget about arc fault in the bedrooms ...
__________________
Gary

"You get what you pay for, and sometimes free costs more!"
GBrackins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 02:08 AM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 154
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


It actually was a 2bed house before, then converted to 1. This conversion takes the washroom and dinning room and makes it a MB. A new house was built in 2006 next door, it has the same number of rooms and less floor space. Two other houses on this street has smaller rooms than what I'm looking at.

Of all the ones that I've seen on this street, not one had a separate dinning room, they simply had a dinning area. Mine had a completely separate dinning room, now it doesn't. All but one of the 3b/2b houses on this are actually smaller than mine.

Making the rooms a certain size has nothing to do with 'shortcuts' and everything to do with proportions.

Because a room is a certain size doesn't mean the wire is out of code. All the wiring has been updated and is now fully grounded. That's a far jump from room size to you're doing substandard work.

In fact all the work has made the house better.

What I was asking about was simply room proportions. How we got to the assumption that I'm doing a hack job or trying to squeeze 3 rooms into 2 is beyond me. I lost rooms: wash room gone, dinning room gone, long hallway to bathroom gone.

The layout of the house was very poor, it used to be a repair shop in the 30's , it had no bathroom as part of the original build. I'm just taking out non-load walls and putting in new ones in the same space.

My point is that it's beyond my understanding how someone can conclude that this is a hack job or sub-standard without seeing 1 photo/drawing or anything else. In fact, I don't know how quality of build / shortcuts or hack job even comes up in the discussion over room proportions in a small house. Houses around here are 700~800 sq ft and yes they do have 800 sq ft 3/2 on this street.

Most modern 'small' houses are probably 1500 sq ft, this area is no where near that.
KarlJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 01:06 PM   #28
DIY-er
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 148
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Here are two good reasons for getting a permit .....

1) after construction if anything happens (fire, house falls/moves), your insurance will likely not cover it because there was no building permit for the work. Anyone who buys a home that has had renovations without a permit is subject to the same possible rejection by an insurance company. That's why everyone should check this out before buying.

2) all your questions about room size would be answered the day that you brought your plans into the building department and asked questions.

Aside from the above, room size does despend on building code. A minimum comfortable room size is 8 ft x 10 ft. for a single bed, and 10 ft. x 10 ft. for a double or queen size bed. It also depends on the location of the door, closet and window.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KevinPh is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to KevinPh For This Useful Post:
concretemasonry (11-03-2012)
Old 11-03-2012, 01:39 PM   #29
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 12,915
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


Figure with a closet, min 13x10, so that you have a decent closet depth.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gregzoll For This Useful Post:
GBrackins (11-03-2012)
Old 11-03-2012, 02:10 PM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 2,819
Default

What size to make non-master rooms


I can't comment on whether or not your previous work is a hack job - I haven't seen it. But the fact is, you are intentionally planning to break the law, and anybody willing to do that is usually unscrupulous with other things as well. And being in California (where I am from), I suspect it's illegal for you as a homeowner to do some of the work you are planning (or have already done).
md2lgyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Extra Empty Room Attached to Master ryanb4614 Building & Construction 6 07-27-2011 04:04 PM
Size of whole house fan needed Doug Crf General DIY Discussions 20 02-25-2011 11:29 PM
Wiring Size Calculations for New Service CorinthWest Electrical 7 12-07-2010 11:36 AM
Building a patio cover...span and size of lumber Q's jongordo8 Building & Construction 1 08-30-2009 12:08 AM
NEC uses building size?????? hhiibel Electrical 14 08-08-2008 12:19 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.