Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-21-2010, 02:52 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
Share |
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


I used 1 1/2 in joist hanger nails in the joist of a double shear hanger. I questioned this and was assured by Lowes expert and other bystander contracter that 1 1/2 was the proper nail to use.
I now know that those nails are useless and I really needed a 3 in nail into the joists.
I have 44 hangers put up and already nailed. I am only hanging sheetrock for a ceiling off of these 2x4 joists. Any Thoughts??
Thanks

odlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 03:45 PM   #2
Member
 
jlhaslip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canadian Rockies
Posts: 1,280
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


1 1/2 " joist nails will be fine unless the joists are holding up more than a 2 x 4 will carry.

Did you fill all the holes?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Go ahead and apply for a variance, those guys at City Hall can use a good laugh.
jlhaslip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 04:10 PM   #3
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,167
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


If you purchased a standard double shear joist hanger such as a Simpson or a USP, the specified nail is a 10d galvanized common (for outdoor use). These nails are typically sold by the 1 lb or 5 lb container, and are right next to the joist hangers in the aisle. The 10d nail is typically 1-1/2 inches long, and is specifically sized for the hole provided in the hanger. For example, a Simpson LU26 takes 6 10d face nails, and 4 10dx1.5 inch joist nails.

I have put up dozens of these hangers, and have never used a 3 inch nail, I don't know who exactly makes a 3 inch nail specifically designed for the hanger, but I have not seen a Simpson or USP 3" nail for that purpose. I wonder where you learned that a 3 inch nail was required?
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daniel Holzman For This Useful Post:
tpolk (05-28-2011)
Old 10-21-2010, 05:42 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Are they double joist hangers? Do you need the shear hangers to hold everything together or on the plans?
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ace_ss-df1.asp

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 06:41 PM   #5
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Use the 1" joist nails to face nail the hangers,

and the 3" Galv. 10D commons to double shear/toenail (45) through the side slots.

DM
Attached Thumbnails
Used wrong nails for joist hanger-nails.jpg  
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click here to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 06:42 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 275
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
If you purchased a standard double shear joist hanger such as a Simpson or a USP, the specified nail is a 10d galvanized common (for outdoor use). These nails are typically sold by the 1 lb or 5 lb container, and are right next to the joist hangers in the aisle. The 10d nail is typically 1-1/2 inches long, and is specifically sized for the hole provided in the hanger. For example, a Simpson LU26 takes 6 10d face nails, and 4 10dx1.5 inch joist nails.

I have put up dozens of these hangers, and have never used a 3 inch nail, I don't know who exactly makes a 3 inch nail specifically designed for the hanger, but I have not seen a Simpson or USP 3" nail for that purpose. I wonder where you learned that a 3 inch nail was required?
+1. I have worked on government run projects where everything is monitored and I have put up a ton of hangers and they were hanger specific shear nails about 1.5" long. How would a 3" nail change the shear factor?
__________________
Everything I state on this forum is an opinion I have developed based on my experience and research as a professional.
wnabcptrNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 07:03 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/nails.asp

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 07:40 PM   #8
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,167
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Turns out this is a lot more complicated than I ever dreamed. The Simpson catalog in fact specifies 10d nails that are 3 inches long, and allows 10d nails that are 1-1/2 inches long for certain hangers, but as near as I can tell only for the header nails, not for the joist nails. For many of the hangers, the correct nail is the 10d 3 inch long nail, or for some of the heavy duty hangers 16d nails are specified.

Here is where things get odd. Simpson has a load reduction table that specifies the reduction (typically to about 70%) if you substitute 10d 1-1/2 inch nails for 10d 3 inch nails. However, there does not appear to be a reduction table for using the shorter nails into the joist. As near as I can tell, Simpson does not want you to use the shorter nail into the joist, so they don't provide a table showing required load reduction if you do use it. I guess this means that Simpson is not going to tell you what reduction to take if you inadvertently use the shorter nails into the joist.

The strange thing is that at Home Depot, Lowes etc. the short nails are sold as "joist hanger nails", and you have to search the hardware aisle for three inch hot dip galvanized nails that meet the spec of Simpson and will withstand PT lumber. This probably explains why the majority of decks are nailed together with short nails, which by the way are easily identified by the 10 stamped on the head of the nail. I can't recall ever going into a Big Box store and finding 10d three inch nails next to the hangers, so this probably explains why hardly anyone uses the proper nail to put up a hanger.

All that said, the load capacity of a nail in pure shear has little to do with the length of the nail, and everything to do with the diameter and strength of steel. However, the Simpson catalog lists load capacity for floor loads (nearly pure shear on the nails), but also for uplift and seismic. Under seismic loading, nails may be subjected to pull out forces, and the deck could be subjected to torsional forces, neither of which are pure shear, hence the length of the nail could be very significant for that specific type of load. A similar argument could be made for wind load, as the deck could be subjected to twisting loads, and individual nails could be subjected to pullout forces. You might also make the case that short nails are more likely to get loose over time as the wood shrinks and checks.

Obviously the proper thing is to use the specified nail, however you already used the wrong size. The hanger capacity could be downrated to the Simpson value of approximately 70 percent for the header nails, which is probably well above the required capacity anyway. The issue with the joist nails is more complicated, since Simpson does not publish a reduction factor for the short joist nail.

I suppose you could pull all the joist nails and use longer ones, and compute the capacity at 70 percent or so. This is probably adequate, but can be checked. Pulling the nails is likely to be a PITA, but since the joist nails go through a tab, it might be doable.

Alternatively, you could leave the shorter nails in the joist, and take your chances, if the inspector lets you do so. If you don't live in seismic country, and you manage to avoid hurricanes and tornadoes, my guess is you will be just fine. However, I am not your local inspector, so my guess carries no weight.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 09:12 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


D, footnote #4 in post 7.

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 09:26 PM   #10
Member
 
jlhaslip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canadian Rockies
Posts: 1,280
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Thanks for this information, GBR.

I stand corrected.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Go ahead and apply for a variance, those guys at City Hall can use a good laugh.
jlhaslip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 10:17 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Thanks for all the replies. I pulled all the nails out of the joists and replaced them with 3 in nails. The joist nails pulled out with just a pair of vicegrips and some muscle. I might have over reacted but I have piece of mind now.
Thanks again
odlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 11:31 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cocoa FL
Posts: 5
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


What about hanging them with screws
RetiredRGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:49 AM   #13
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Screws should not be used for joist hangers. They do not have the needed shear strength.

Use the required 1" joist nails (#10 stamped on head) to face nail the hangers and 3" 10D Galv. commons to double shear/toenail through the side slots.

DM
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click here to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 10:15 AM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cocoa FL
Posts: 5
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


The box of the stepson hanger said you could use #9 2 1/2" structural screws. Witch are 13.00 for 100 ea but it comes with a free bit (Wow). Is this just a manufacture wanting to make more money? Will these screws affect a structural inspection. I'm just adding full size blocking every 4' and a 2x4 blocking at 24".
RetiredRGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 10:26 AM   #15
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Default

Used wrong nails for joist hanger


Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredRGM View Post
#9 2 1/2" structural screws
If the mfg. states these are OK, then they are, of course, fine.
I was referring to plain screws, which are not. This has been asked before.

Most joists that DIYers hang will use nails.
I did however, (when I put in my joists) have need of two hangers that required structural screws. The rest were nailed.

DM

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click here to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refinishing / Repairing Deck: Screws vs. Nails? superhandymom Building & Construction 1 05-10-2010 02:08 AM
Forgot to use galvanized nails... healeypd Building & Construction 8 05-12-2009 09:10 AM
What nails to use? 2x4 framing, osb sheathing jw15842 Carpentry 6 09-08-2008 10:31 PM
Rusty nails FatAugie Roofing/Siding 6 08-28-2007 09:25 AM
Which nails are right for the job? MIKEGOUGH1 Building & Construction 2 12-16-2006 10:54 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.