Tiling Tub/shower Surround W/plaster & Lath Walls - Remodeling - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2012, 10:17 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far sw sub chicago
Posts: 4,105
Rewards Points: 2,682
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


oh. and yes. if wanting to "do it right" = remove the P&L.

also. if doing a shower like mine = DO NOT use any kind of wood for the curb !!! i used paver blocks = do not rot or change size

Advertisement

Fix'n it is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fix'n it For This Useful Post:
Bonzai (06-19-2012)
Old 06-19-2012, 10:24 PM   #17
Renovations contractor
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish, BC - Canada
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


The correct method of installing tiles especially where it relates to a shower stall is one of those things where you will get lots of opinions depending on different experiences, local codes/bylaws, materials available locally, how strict/knowledgeable/forward-thinking/green your building department is, what traditional practices are still used today, etc etc. The only way you can be more certain of doing something which has a better chance of lasting is to comply with local building codes. Personally, when it comes to tile installations and especially showers I believe the building codes (in BC at least) have some way to go and so I am always looking to exceed them not just scrape by.

The first home I renovated was an Edinburgh apartment built in 1780 with 2' thick stone walls on the exterior and brick walls which were plastered on the interior ... a pain in the ass to move any interior walls, but very little chance of any rot in the walls as there was no wood of course ;-) Yes they were rather musty though as the plaster was probably holding in a lot of moisture in what were inadequately vented bathrooms ... venting usually involved leaving a window open a bit The tile was usually installed directly on top of the plaster because that's what was the done thing back then & we didn't have access to all the materials available today for waterproofing, etc. Yes these bathrooms lasted a ridiculous length of time, yes they were musty (many had carpet or asbestos tile on the floor) and no they didn't rot other than the floor boards as that was about the only wood component. My parents bathroom is virtually unchanged in 40 years but then again it is a brick built home ... and yes it smells musty

Since coming to Canada where the vast majority of homes are timber built, I see so many rot and carpenter ant related issues ... either incorrectly built decks or showers/tubs which have developed small crack or holes in the grout or caulking and then nothing was done for 10years 'cos the home owner thought, what the hell it's only a pin prick ... what they don't realize is how many buckets of water that fills up over a 10 year period when using the shower daily.

Technically speaking you could cake a lath & plaster wall in waterproofing membrane & if you are anal about checking & rechecking the silicon around the shower tray & the wall/ceiling joins every year (as that and the corners are the typical weak spots) then perhaps you will not have any issues from water seeping through the smallest of gaps and weeping up the plaster and/or in to the studs. I would ask myself is the physical effort to remove the lath & paster relative to the value of my home in the longer term worth it.
Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 10:31 PM   #18
Renovations contractor
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish, BC - Canada
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix'n it View Post
oh. and yes. if wanting to "do it right" = remove the P&L.

also. if doing a shower like mine = DO NOT use any kind of wood for the curb !!! i used paver blocks = do not rot or change size
You can use three 2x4's on top of each other (screwed & glued together) provided you then encase them in concrete board and then wrap Kerdi, for example, over that. Kind of like one of those ice-cream sandwich things ... just not as tasty
Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:24 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 513
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


I would have to say that based on all the replies here, at the very least you better be very sure about the condition of the plaster before you consider the kerdi. My suggestion at this point would be belt and suspenders. Install the green board making sure to hit studs. Then the kerdi.
Evstarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 09:52 AM   #20
Renovations contractor
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish, BC - Canada
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Evstarr
I would have to say that based on all the replies here, at the very least you better be very sure about the condition of the plaster before you consider the kerdi. My suggestion at this point would be belt and suspenders. Install the green board making sure to hit studs. Then the kerdi.
Not green board ... Cement board or a product such as Denshield.
__________________
Home Renovations & Repairs
ADVENT HOME SOLUTIONS INC
Vancouver to Whistler & beyond
Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 01:08 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 92
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


I like that, belt and suspenders...

The plaster in that room is awesome. It's horse hair plaster and lath, and it hasn't aged a day, whereas other areas of the house I can see the plaster needs help, these walls in the bathroom are nothing if not solid.

I'm mulling over my options still. Denshield over the plaster and lath , then sealed like crazy, I think. There's no pan, as it's an old cast iron tub (not the claw foot kind, though )

I'm also fighting on what to do for the counter/sink area. My counter MUST be 18" or less in depth... picture a galley bathroom... long and skinny. I can sit on the toilet and wash my hands, it's so narrow.
OurHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 06:17 PM   #22
Renovations contractor
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish, BC - Canada
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


How about setting the faucet off to the corner of a vessel sink rather than behind it to buy yourself a couple of inches. Does that make sense?
__________________
Home Renovations & Repairs
ADVENT HOME SOLUTIONS INC
Vancouver to Whistler & beyond
Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 09:36 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far sw sub chicago
Posts: 4,105
Rewards Points: 2,682
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
Not green board ... Cement board or a product such as Denshield.
why are you saying "no" to a manufacturers recommendations ?
Fix'n it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 10:17 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 92
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
How about setting the faucet off to the corner of a vessel sink rather than behind it to buy yourself a couple of inches. Does that make sense?
That's kind of where I was going, though even vessel sinks are like 17" or more, so there's still some challenge, there. I've even considered scouring Goodwills for some large bowls and attempting to make my own vessel sink, too...

Anyone know what I could use to cut acrylic countertops? I found a place that will ship me the scraps from their orders, but I'm scared to click the BUY button until I know I can work with it myself with the tools available.
OurHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 01:29 AM   #25
Renovations contractor
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish, BC - Canada
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix'n it View Post
why are you saying "no" to a manufacturers recommendations ?
Which manufacturer is recommending that green mildew resistant gypsum board (or greenboard as it is commonly referred) be used in a shower? There is a big difference between using it around the rest of the bathroom to resist the growth of mould versus actually in the shower stall.

If you are thinking of http://www.greeneboard.com/ then this is something totally different ... similar sounding, but totally different. It is 'green' as in eco friendly, as opposed to the green paper front side on greenboard.
__________________
Home Renovations & Repairs
ADVENT HOME SOLUTIONS INC
Vancouver to Whistler & beyond
Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 09:00 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far sw sub chicago
Posts: 4,105
Rewards Points: 2,682
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
Which manufacturer is recommending that green mildew resistant gypsum board (or greenboard as it is commonly referred) be used in a shower?
when using kerdi, kerdi does. well kinda, they recommend regular drywall.
but green drywall isn't any different in this application.
Fix'n it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 10:37 PM   #27
Renovations contractor
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish, BC - Canada
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix'n it View Post
when using kerdi, kerdi does. well kinda, they recommend regular drywall.
but green drywall isn't any different in this application.
In terms of what I can find in documented format ... Seems we're both right ... sort of. Let me explain ... the section of the 2009 Schluter installers handbook on steam showers (picked this 'cos a steam shower has the most potential for issues) states under 'Solid backing materials' a bunch of options including regular gypsum wallboard. It even says you can use gypsum board to sheath the curb! It doesn't specifically recommend anything, but I guess it is inferred.

HOWEVER, referring to the Terrazzo, Tile & Marble Association of Canada handbook (which comes as part of the Schluter installation binder) it states under the section referring to installing large format tiles (I had to scan everything to find this) "Do not use gypsum board in wet areas such as tub & shower enclosures". They are the governing body of everything tile in North America so that's commonly the specs that installers follow ... I seem to recall a bit of a discussion on this very topic on the Schluter installer course in Vancouver a few years back & if I am not mistaken the unofficial response from Schluter was they prefer if we use cement board in any wet application (the Kerdi board was not on the market at that time).

In summary; it's very confusing for the lay-person ... all I can say is I know what the inspectors here will approve and I know what rests my conscience by leaving no room for doubt.
__________________
Home Renovations & Repairs
ADVENT HOME SOLUTIONS INC
Vancouver to Whistler & beyond
Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 06:28 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 92
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Hardibacker is going up over the solid plaster and lath, then likely coating with Red Guard, though there was a product at Lowe's that looked interesting called Aqua Defense, but it calls for painting the walls with the waterproofer then pushing "fabric" into it so that the waterproofer bleeds through the cloth, then repainting the fabric covered walls... but I can't for the life of me figure out what kind of fabric they are talking about and the Lowe's folks don't know, either.

On the topic of the bathroom floor, there were 8x8 rubbery vinyl tiles that are about 1/16" thick and on top of a brown liquid glue on top of a underlayment of some type that appears to sit atop a felted black layer of some type of glue(?) Is that black stuff likely asbestos? I'm tempted to pull the underlayment up and refloor with groutable vinyl tiles, but grrr decisions, decisions. I really want to pull up that underlayment because the floor of the bathroom already is higher than the floor of the adjacent hallway and adding over it it will be close to 1/2" above the hallway :s
OurHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 12:48 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 92
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


Project update: HardiBacker is up over the plaster and lath with a ridiculous amount of construction adhesive and a copious amount of HardiBacker screws. Tiling begins today. Wish me luck. At least, from my last tile sojourn, I remembered not to be conned by grout additives that only make it a to work with.

Plumbing question, if I may, we have a Delta MultiChoice R10000-unbx and the instructions say that the tub spout should be between 8-18" from the multichoice unit, but for comfort we really like the multichoice unit at 21.5" inches higher than the tub spout pipe. What is going to go wrong if I put it at 21.5" higher? Any idea? Also, illustrations online also had a diverter, but my plumbing supplier never mentioned a diverter, and I thought that's what the multichoice accomplished?
OurHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 92
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls


No more responses for me, huh? I know I've been working hard, but you can't smell me through the computer, can you?

I tested the shower last night, and it works fine with the 21.5" drop, and there was no diverter needed. It's quite a to pipe a shower and get the holes in the perfect spaces on the HardiBacker, etc. Next time, I think I will have to hire it out so that my dog doesn't learn my favorite 4 letter words LOL. It took me a LONG time to get the shower stuff put together and through the wall properly, so tiling actually didn't start yesterday, but I guess that's for the better since it gave us time to give a 3rd coat of AquaDefense before we went to bed last night. Wish me luck.

Advertisement

OurHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
greenboard , tiling , tiling shower walls


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
tiling floor and re-plastering walls kirstyb78 Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 1 09-10-2009 05:52 PM
removing concrete parging from basement foundation walls. newzev Remodeling 1 07-24-2009 09:17 AM
Tiling Tub Surround MikeyP Flooring 8 01-04-2009 09:29 PM
Keeping Water out of the Top of Brick Walls o2barockstar Roofing/Siding 4 02-18-2008 03:50 PM
Fishing through plaster and lath walls?? slatergrl Electrical 7 02-05-2008 09:29 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts