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-   -   Tiling around cabinets in kitchen (http://www.diychatroom.com/f15/tiling-around-cabinets-kitchen-103819/)

Philj 05-07-2011 12:37 PM

Tiling around cabinets in kitchen
 
I ripped out the old cabinets and installed 1/2 ply on top of 3/4" ply. Than I'll set the cabinets in place and will tile around them. Question is, do I need to raise the cabinets so the bottom of the cabinet is flush with the top of the tile?

I will be installing tile to the plywood which will be screwed down every six inches.

epsilon 05-07-2011 02:33 PM

Not sure about raising the cabinets at all, hopefully someone else will chime in on that. I wouldn't think it would be necessary but i really don't know. What i would suggest however, is use of some type of decoupling material to allow for independent movement of the sub/finished floor. Ditra by schluter would be an example of this...

Ron6519 05-07-2011 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philj (Post 643579)
I ripped out the old cabinets and installed 1/2 ply on top of 3/4" ply. Than I'll set the cabinets in place and will tile around them. Question is, do I need to raise the cabinets so the bottom of the cabinet is flush with the top of the tile?

I will be installing tile to the plywood which will be screwed down every six inches.

Where is this plywood?
You're not tiling on the plywood are you?
I don't really understand what you're doing.
Ron

Philj 05-07-2011 03:26 PM

I'm tiling to plywood. I talked to many experts and it is perfectly fine. Plywood has to be screwed down every 4-6 inches to existing plywood. Total thicknes should be 1,1/8"-1,1/4". My dad did all hid tile on plywood to only 3/4" ply and the tile has been there for over 20 years without a problem. I think all these companies coming out with special products are here only to cash in more money.

Philj 05-07-2011 03:27 PM

I did say I'm remodeling the kitchen and installing tile.

Craftsman Jay 05-07-2011 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philj
I did say I'm remodeling the kitchen and installing tile.

You didn't say floor or wall. I think that's where the confusion is. Sounds like a floor to me.

Why not tile then install cabinets?

oh'mike 05-07-2011 08:04 PM

If you are tiling the floor---tile it under the cabinets,too. It's faster,easier(fewer cuts)--neater install.

Tile should never be installed over wood---always Cement board or a membrane.

Wood expands and contracts at a different rater than tile----and bond failure can occur.

What experts gave you that advice?---Just curious.----Mike----

Philj 05-08-2011 02:13 AM

It's floor tile. I went to few specialty stores ( privately owned). I was told there is more people with problems that used cement boards like wonder board. All of them said if you screw down the plywood every 4-6 inches there will not be a problem. Also i was told to seal the plywood with varathane to prevent water absorption. I dunno but does not hurt to try and see for myself how it'll hold.

Some people say tile around and some say tile the whole kitchen floor. If tile around the cabinets and tile where the dishwasher goes will the dishwasher fit? Not sure what is the standard hight for the dishwater. I think I might tile around the cabinets... I have 1 week to decide what I'm going to do.

oh'mike 05-08-2011 06:48 AM

Good morning Philj---Tile under the cabinets---it's faster---puts the appliances at the right height--
avoids messing up the cabinets with thinset and grout---and neater--no bad cuts filled with to much grout.-----I can't see any upside to tiling around cabinets if there is a choice.

I use 1/4 inch wonder board or Durrock set in thinset and nailed with roofing nails.

That's your insurance---it expands and contracts at the same rate as the tile--wood does not and can break the bond.

Read 'Mud what is it?' by Bud Cline--in 'How to' section---Use a powdered thinset (modified) over cement board.--

-If you decide to use the plywood as your base you might(maybe/let's hope) be successful if you use a two part Thinset.

That is a powder and a liquid latex additive. Kerabond and Keralastic by Mepei is an example.

Good luck there----Mike-----

Ron6519 05-08-2011 06:59 AM

"I was told there is more people with problems that used cement boards like wonder board."
This is truely a statement made by an ignorant person or it relates to people so DIY challanged they should not even own tools. The problem with advice when you're not familiar with the subject is that the incorrect advice given a few times becomes truth.
I tile the whole floor and then put the cabinets and appliances on top of the tile.
It's your house, do what you want.
Ron

cabinetman 05-08-2011 07:07 AM

I would tile under the cabinets, as it would keep the opening height correct for appliances (34 1/2"). It would make sliding them in and out easier. Having the cabinets on top of the tile puts the seam under the cabinets, instead of between the tile and the toekick. Tiling under the cabinets provides a good floor if the cabinets are ever replaced.

I would use cement board. Cement (thinset) even with a bonding agent doesn't stick to wood/plywood. You can see that in using wood for cement forms.





tcleve4911 05-08-2011 07:08 AM

Tile CAN be installed on plywood.
It's been done for years.
We're doing some tile upgrades as we speak.

I called our tile company that's been in business for 50 years.
The installer addressed the underlayment concern explaining that they go over plywood all the time but go the extra with a certain type of modified latex thinset that guarantees a good bond.

No sealing of the plywood. I think that could create a problem with the thinset adhering to the sealer. Not sure.

Old school tile - get all your cabinets and baseboard installed, painted and finished. Tile up to them with a 1/16th -1/8" grout line. Lots more work but you don't get the gap created when you set the base on top of the grout line.

New school - run all your tile and then set your base & cabs on top. There will be a gap at every grout line and any irregularities or unevenness in the tiles will be telegraphed by the straight lines of trim & bases.

Some folks add plywood under the cabs to save on tile.

Your dishwasher should have adjustable feet. Tile the DW floor for water and creating a flush condition to slide the DW in & out.

mustangmike3789 05-08-2011 07:42 AM

thanks tcleve, i tiled over plywood for years back in the day with no failures. this was back before concrete board and all of the modified thinsets. we would use plain thinset with acrylic mortar admix. my house has 3/4" plywood with a 1/2"mortar bed (wire lath and admix in the mortar bed and thinset)since 1995 ,no problems.

Philj 05-08-2011 11:43 AM

I must agree with tcleve about installing tile around cabinets. That way your grout lines run parallel to the toekick board. If you tile first before placing the cabinets your grout lines will not line up properly with the space between the cabinets.

firehawkmph 05-08-2011 03:03 PM

I've done it both ways. I prefer to tile before cabinets. If you preplan your layout properly, grout joints shouldn't be an issue. Much easier and quicker to lay the tile and grout. I have also tiled over plywood on occasion. Before cement board, it was a very common practice. Just tore out a job done on plywood to remodel a bath. I had a hell of a time getting them off. Modified thinset should be used. Checking the substructure to me is more important than the final choice of cement board vs. plywood. If the floor structure is insufficient, everything else is a moot point.
Mike Hawkins:)


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