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Old 09-25-2008, 01:41 PM   #16
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Originally Posted by baxter View Post
O P if you dont mind me asking, exactly what is your project and what type of foam are you using?
My project is insulating my basement. Extruded foam (code board) and cover with drywall. It isn't going that well even though I have acquired a hammer drill. I'd say that the bit is toast already and I only have about 5 holes drilled. How much money will I have to spend on a drill bit that will last?

I can't insulate and leave it bare because in the event of a fire the gases given off by the stuff would likely kill me before a smoke alarm would wake me...see what I'm saying? I am very much open to using alternative methods now that I have scratched the surface of nearly deafening myself with the hammer drill and getting essentially nowhere along with wearing out one bit for half a dozen-ish holes and a good aching pain in my arm.

I am considering using adhesive and then applying strapping via a glued base board (improper term?) and then attaching the top of the strapping to the joists above (unfinished basement ceiling).

Nestor...that sounds SO easy but how to apply the drywall after that?
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:04 PM   #17
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Tapcon into concrete.


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He's kinda lacking the hammer feature.
Told you he'd get the hammer drill !



OP - check your technique while drilling...the drill bit that comes with the tapcons usually works very well for all in the package and more. Steady straight pressure is you friend, if you try to force it in, you're defeating the hammer drill function. The drill has to have the ability to hammer at the bit while it rotates. If you apply brute force, you're not letting the drill do it's work and you may as well use a regular drill. A couple of summers ago I drilled in maybe 200 or so with the same bit.

You could always use a washer headed remmington nail...just watch your ears!

You could change designs, and make a stud wall inside your existing basement wall insulated with fiberglass. Then all you'd have to do is fasten the wall to the concrete or the floor joist above and basement floor below.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:13 PM   #18
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Tapcon into concrete.


I think a quality polyurethane adhesive would do the trick for the foam AND the drywall. It is by far easier, quicker and quieter than tapcons.

You would be amazed at what the expanding foams (not sure of the TOS, dont want to mention a brand name and get in trouble) will do as an adhesive. There a couple of tricks involved, but it is truly amazing Stuff. If youre intrested, pm me and I will go into further detail.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:13 PM   #19
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Tapcon into concrete.


Um...your avatar is wearing a devil hat and you have 666 posts...

Anyway, I'll try to pay attention to the technique but I am sure that first bit is toast.

Is this a viable alternative?

1-use adhesive to put the foam boards up
2-use adhesive to attach strapping to foam boards
3-use drywall screws to attach the drywall to the strapping

4-use some sort of improvised method to attach the strapping to the actual structure of the house to keep the wall(s) from coming down!! Possibly including the baseboard adhered to the floor.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:32 PM   #20
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Tapcon into concrete.


Thanks baxter. I can't pm you because I don't have enough posts but I definitely would be interested in a Tapcon-less method. I have seen that adhesive hold things that I could hardly believe so I can imagine that it must be able to hold up walls...particularly if I have the added feature of fastening the top of the wall to the overhead joists and possibly a baseboard on the floor as well.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:10 PM   #21
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Tapcon into concrete.


YIKES...the planets must be out of alignment some where...posting again to get off that number....

Check out the links in this post use DOW blue rigid for interior & health concerns? I give some names of foams and some other thoughts.

Personally I don't think I would fasten the strapping with the foam, that would imply that it's structural, and I'm not sure I'd go there, I don't think that would be an appropriate use. I would however encourage you to maybe think of the Remington powder fasteners...check out this post Moneymookie You could glue the foam up, and use the Remington fasteners to hold the strapping up and drywall to that.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:00 PM   #22
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Tapcon into concrete.


Well...I tried the slow and steady pressure with good/great results for a couple of holes. I was even patient and calm enough to say "I'll drill a couple inches away" if it was stalled (I assumed a larger rock in the concrete or something) and moved steadily-ish at a pace that I would be completely happy with IF I COULD GET FURTHER THAN 8 LINEAR FEET!!!

I am at the end of my freaking rope with this BS method...2 bits/20-ish holes/12 holes that are actually the way that they are supposed to be.

I am pissed off. I have two 4 foot panels of insulation up in my basement and if this method worked like it is supposed to I would be finished half of my basement or more by now.
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:21 AM   #23
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Also, use a nut driver in the hammer drill to install the tapcons with the hammering action engaged. Those that would twist off with a normal drill will sink like they were going into butta!

Could you please clarify on this? Are you saying that after drilling the hole, it is best to load the tapcon screw onto the hammer drill and drill it in with the hammer feature still engaged? It seems like this would either strip out the hole, or damage the screw...

I always screw them in by hand - but then again I've never actually drilled one into concrete, just cinder block and mortar.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:48 AM   #24
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Also, use a nut driver in the hammer drill to install the tapcons with the hammering action engaged. Those that would twist off with a normal drill will sink like they were going into butta!
How do you do this? Change the chuck? I just have the twist lock chuck (for hammer drill bits) on my Hilte.

Jamie
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:58 AM   #25
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Originally Posted by smorgdonkey View Post
Well...I tried the slow and steady pressure with good/great results for a couple of holes. I was even patient and calm enough to say "I'll drill a couple inches away" if it was stalled (I assumed a larger rock in the concrete or something) and moved steadily-ish at a pace that I would be completely happy with IF I COULD GET FURTHER THAN 8 LINEAR FEET!!!

I am at the end of my freaking rope with this BS method...2 bits/20-ish holes/12 holes that are actually the way that they are supposed to be.

I am pissed off. I have two 4 foot panels of insulation up in my basement and if this method worked like it is supposed to I would be finished half of my basement or more by now.
Man something is wrong, way wrong. Last week, I put in 50 tapcons, set about 2 inches into concrete, no problems, all the same bit, and that was an OLD bit that had done many many many other holes. I had no problems with it.

My 12" long 1/2" bit has been used for at least 200-300 holes through 8 inch poured concrete with re-rod in it, and it still works just fine.

The bits don't wear out that fast, even if you hit rocks, or rerod.

Maybe a better hammer drill is called for? What are you using (brand?)?

I used a Hilte Te5, it is my favorite out of a number of hammer drills I have used.

Jamie
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:38 AM   #26
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Could you please clarify on this? Are you saying that after drilling the hole, it is best to load the tapcon screw onto the hammer drill and drill it in with the hammer feature still engaged? It seems like this would either strip out the hole, or damage the screw...

I always screw them in by hand - but then again I've never actually drilled one into concrete, just cinder block and mortar.
That's right. It's not unlike the action of an impact wrench. When I used a a normal drill...the screws would twist about the time they were drawn up tight, talk about frustrating.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:47 AM   #27
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Tapcon into concrete.


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How do you do this? Change the chuck? I just have the twist lock chuck (for hammer drill bits) on my Hilte.

Jamie
I'm not familiar with that chuck. I was using this Bosch model that has a standard Jacobs chuck. I drove the screws with both the tapcon drill/driver set and regular nut setters. The advantage of the the condrive is having the driver and drill all in one. The downside is the driver is marginal, and the separate nut setters are much higher quality.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:33 AM   #28
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Man something is wrong, way wrong. Last week, I put in 50 tapcons, set about 2 inches into concrete, no problems, all the same bit, and that was an OLD bit that had done many many many other holes. I had no problems with it.
"something is wrong"...you can say that again!!

The hammer drill that I am using is Black And Decker (I know it isn't a big fancy brand) but it is a 6.5 amp one and it has NO PROBLEM with the first few holes...then the bit is fuming and generating so much heat that the insulation is melting and everything...I may be done with this method. I am just sick of no progress. My concrete is 55+ years old...just too hard?
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:51 AM   #29
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Tapcon into concrete.


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then the bit is fuming and generating so much heat that the insulation is melting and everything...I may be done with this method. I am just sick of no progress. My concrete is 55+ years old...just too hard?
Clean your bit between each hole, you are fouling the cutting edge with the insulation. Try sacrificing the same size twist bit in your regular drill motor to drill through the insulation, then swith to the hammer drill and bit for the concrete.
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:51 AM   #30
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Tapcon into concrete.


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Clean your bit between each hole, you are fouling the cutting edge with the insulation. Try sacrificing the same size twist bit in your regular drill motor to drill through the insulation, then swith to the hammer drill and bit for the concrete.
Thanks...I will employ that info into my regimen as well...I just returned from the building supply store and they (some experienced DIY employees) flat-out told me that the bits that come with the Tapcons suck. 'Suck' was their word...so I got a couple of others and will try again. They also stated that the 55+ year old concrete was likely very hard (which I agree with)...

Progress report tomorrow...(?)
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