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Old 09-21-2007, 09:15 AM   #31
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


last night go back try to apply poly... couldn't make it work... I think the HD guy screw me.... that's what I come up to... don't ask HD people question.. they could harm you. Here is the story:

I ask them what tool to use to apply Poly, I was thinking to buy a foam bush... this guy, looks so experience, instead ask me to buy stain pad which is for applying stain.... I then asked him do I need to wipe out excess... he said, Oh ! yes... so basically he kind of tell me the way to apply Poly is identical to applying stain... and back home try that... it is a mess...

anyway... I hope I can reapply Poly to make the surface looks good again using foam bush... the instruction on the Veterphane oil base poly doesn't say it need to sand between layer... as I don't have foam bush on hand, I tried to use a regular brush last night, find out there is tiny small particle left ... I wonder this is normal or not... I am a bit worry when I soak the stain pad onto the can (using the HD method), some of the stain particles drop into the can making the poly a mixture of poly and stains ...anyway... I will search the web see the proper way of doing it....

thanks if you can help ...

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Last edited by KUIPORNG; 09-21-2007 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:20 AM   #32
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


You definitely don't want to wipe off poly (or any film-finish) after applying it. In fact, you want to apply a finish with as few strokes as possible. It is not like painting, where you can stroke back through it a few times to even it out.

Instead you want to just allow the finish to flow out of the brush (or foam brush) as you move it across the workpiece. With an oil-based finish, you may then want to go back over it once to even it out. But then move on, and make your next stroke right next to the last one.

If you have an uneven or dirty/linty/hairy surface from your first attempt you should sand it with 220 or 400 grit paper, lightly, until smooth to the touch. Then reapply.

Many finishes don't REQUIRE sanding between coats, but that simply means that a second coat will chemically bond to the prior coat without sanding.

Even with those finishes that don't require sanding for a good bond, should be sanded very lightly with 400 grit paper, to knock down any dust spots or roughness before recoating. If you run your hand over the dry finish, you'll feel the roughness. Just lightly rub a 400 grit paper over that finish, avoiding any corners (where it is too easy to sand through the finish). Then run your hand over it again, and you'll notice the much smoother surface. Before recoating, blow, wipe, or vacuum off any dust and lint, and try to keep dust down while the finish is drying.

(This is one reason I prefer shellac finishes - they dry to the touch in about 5 minutes, so in a typical small shop, there is less chance for dust to settle on the wet finish, and mess it up.)

Good luck!
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:30 AM   #33
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Definitely don't listen to anything anyone at HD or any other big box store tells you. If they knew what they were talking about they wouldn't be working at HD - they would be working at the trade.

And tell your wife to either relax or get off her rear and help out. Well, maybe in more delicate words.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:33 AM   #34
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Thanks Nate, now I know why my neighbour goes with painting rather than staining for his newly creaed daughter table......

this stain/poly thing is so.......so....so.... much time/work... out of my expectation...... but... I already got my hair wet..... will have to continue.... need good explanation to my BOSS now why things take longer..... I will ask her to hang all the cloths first... and wait for the shelf to come.....

so "shellac finishes" is a brand name or a kind of finishing like gloss/semi-gloss...etc. I probably am going to buy another can of poly worrying the one I had already got corrupted last night...

this morning due to last night mistakes (apply like stain), I saw some dull spots on the surface rather than gloss.. when sun shine on the wood ... I hope those thing can be fixed when I do it right this time, won't it....
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:10 AM   #35
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Yes, wood finishing is a HUGE amount of work. That table I posted a picture of above took about 3 weeks to build, and almost a week to finish and polish. Basically, the finish was almost $1000 worth of the work in that piece. But if you're building in fine wood, with careful attention to detail, you'd never think of finishing any other way. Paint has it's place, but not on fine furniture, in my opinion. Save it for the house.

Uneveness in your first coat is to be expected. The wood absorbs the finish unevenly, so the first coat is really just to seal up the wood. (it is often applied a bit thinner than the subsequent coats)

If you're seeing uneven sheen in the final coat, you should rub it out with 0000 (very fine) steel wool, until the sheen is uniformly satin. Then you can add some gloss with a paste wax (like minwax floor wax) or you can polish the finish with things like pumice and rottenstone, or buffing compounds. But that is really more than you'll want to get into for a closet shelf. Rubbing out the finish so diligently is more appropriate for fine furniture finishes.

You'll probably have reasonably even finish with the 3rd coat, and can just leave it at that, with no rubbing out. If you do any rubbing out, just do it with 0000 steel wool, and leave it at a satin finish.

Shellac is a traditional type of finish. It's a product of tree sap which is excreted by the Lac Bettle, a bug that feeds on the sap, and leaves deposits of shellac behind it as it moves along. That bug poo is collected from the twigs of the tree, cleaned up and refined a bit, and then dried into flakes. To apply it to wood, the shellac is dissolved in Denatured Alcohol at a rate of about 1 pound per gallon for a first coat, or 2 pounds per gallon for finish coats. You brush it on like poly, although it dries so fast that you can't brush back through it at all. The fumes are completely non-toxic, and pleasant. It is easily applied and repaired, but not quite as water or alcohol resistant as alkyd or polyurethane varnishes.
However, it's much more natural and beautiful looking than varnishes.

You can buy it at home depot in pre-mixed cans. (probably a "Bullseye" brand product). You want it "dewaxed". This stuff is ok, but not quite as nice looking as dried shellac that you can buy at a woodworking store, or online, and dissolve in alcohol yourself.

You won't want to use shellac for this project, because it cannot be applied over Polyurethane. (although it can be applied UNDER poly, as a sealer, or as build coats). It takes a little practice to apply, but I'd encourage anyone who is interested in furnituremaking to give it a try sometime. It's a great finish for the small shop.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:43 AM   #36
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Thanks.... now I know why the builder charge me an optional piece of 1 by 8 wood for $200 bucks in our kitchen carbinet... when I figure the cost of the wood itself may be only $20....
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:37 PM   #37
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


consider I need to do so much sanding... I bought the Dewalt 5" Orbital Sander variable speed plus vacuum...

Can I use it to sand the between layer poly? using 220 paper... Or I have to do it by hand... and I should refund the tool... or probably, I won't refund the tool but use it for other processes...

thanks

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Old 09-21-2007, 12:43 PM   #38
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Keep the tool for other purposes.

Only sand between finish coats by hand. 220 is a little on the coarse side. 320 or 400 is preferable.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:17 PM   #39
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Umm....are you making shelves?
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:58 PM   #40
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Yes I am closet selves....

it would have been done by now... if I paint....

but I choose to stain when I didn't know what I am getting into...

now I am getting more and more involve in this wood working business which I have minimum experience with...

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Old 09-21-2007, 03:58 PM   #41
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Good for you Kui****g!

What colour is the stain that you are doing?
I bet there are not too many closets that have maple wood in it, that is stained?

From now on you have to leave the doors open to the closet so that everyone can see them.
And for about $300 bucks, you're laughing.

You should open up your own business with this handiwork that you do. I bet you know a lot more than some of the "professionals" out there.

When will you post pics?
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:17 PM   #42
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


OK. For that length of a shelf, you'll need a front support added or the shelf will sag on you. The easiest way to do this is add a 1x2 to the front of the shelf. Not only will it add strength, but it will hide the edge of the plywood and give the shelf a substatial look.

One way to install this would be to cut a rabbet 3/4 x 1/2" along the 1x2, glue it to the plywood and countersink a couple small wood screws to hold everything in place as the glue dries.

If you're familliar with tablesaw cuts, you could also cut a 3/4 groove the length of the 1x about 3/8" from the top surface. This method will give excellent strength to the shelf, hide the plywood edge and provide a 3/8" lip to the front of the shelf so nothing rolls off.


Last edited by Jeekinz; 09-21-2007 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:28 PM   #43
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


One more thing, 'Bondo' is used on cars not woodwork.
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:36 PM   #44
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeekinz View Post
One more thing, 'Bondo' is used on cars not woodwork.
Sure, but nothings better for filling MDF edges, or filling voids in ply before paint.
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:00 PM   #45
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Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8


Sorry, there are other products out there that are closer to the properties of wood. He's using maple ply shelving, in 3 pages there wasn't one iota of installing support for 8' long shelves. Now he has maple shelves with no support, a screwed up finish from an idiot at HD, and a can of Bondo.

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