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-   -   Retrofit window - void between vinyl and alum frame?? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f15/retrofit-window-void-between-vinyl-alum-frame-56506/)

pcl586 11-03-2009 12:26 PM

Retrofit window - void between vinyl and alum frame??
 
hello everyone

Got a quick question in regards to the void left in between the new vinyl frame and the old alum frame. Not within the alum tracks, but the space left between the old frame and the flush fin/stucco fin. I attempted to depict the area in question with the follow image (red area). Do you insulate that void or leave it "empty" to allow water/moisture to escape??

Also, I wanted to "build" a better "foundation" for the new windows to sit. I was thinking about using low exp foam to fill the alum tracks and square off any excess foam (any foam above the highest tracks, all four sides) and then setting, shimming the retro window in place. So the window would be supported by the highest parts of the track and foam. My thought was to allow the foam to cure without the window in place to avoid any over expansion and bowing of the new windows (since I'm not a pro at foaming). This wouldn't give the window the best "seal" but could help avoid breaking my new windows from the start. Any opinion on this??

Really leaning toward the Simonton Impressions 7300 BUT I cant find someone who will sell them to me...the search continues...Thanks!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_gVM2KamiDos/Sv...76/window2.JPG

Ron6519 11-03-2009 02:17 PM

The replacement window should have been measured so that the window would be seated on the two sides and top. The actual window should project past these stops. There should be no space on front of the vinyl window and the aluminum frame. If you have space on the sides of the window, this is normal. There should be 1/4-3/8" on the sides for adjustment. This area should be shimmed and then insulated. If you like foam, use the low expanding product made for doors and windows.
Ron

pcl586 11-03-2009 04:28 PM

Thanks Ron for the feedback...the new vinyl window would be resting on top of the alum tracks (back away from the outer frame) and thus leave a void between the outer track wall and the outer vinyl fin. wouldn't it??

Ron6519 11-03-2009 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcl586 (Post 348832)
Thanks Ron for the feedback...the new vinyl window would be resting on top of the alum tracks (back away from the outer frame) and thus leave a void between the outer track wall and the outer vinyl fin. wouldn't it??

This is not the way to install these windows. There is no way to keep the water out by, "filling in the space".
The window needs to be installed in a way that seals the window from water intrusion. Using a replacement window that sits in the aluminum frame might work, it depends on how you could seal it and cap the top.
You can't just get a window close in size and make it work.
Ron

pcl586 05-18-2010 03:21 PM

My project is back on the table (spring time!)...wanted to give this thread a bump...I'm still not sure about this "void"...

Also, for those who have DIY retrofit windows, did you insulate the bottom sill (where the old window slide back/forth) and side jambs in any way? I was thinking of spraying a little low rise foam to fill those gaps.

Thanks!

kwikfishron 05-18-2010 06:22 PM

Your going about this the wrong way.

Have you orderd the new windows yet?

pcl586 05-18-2010 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron (Post 443821)
Your going about this the wrong way.

Have you orderd the new windows yet?

kwik

thanks for the feedback...haven't ordered the windows yet. I'm still in the process of taking the correct measurements.

did you not like the idea of leaving the alum frame in? from all the retrofit window diy 'write-ups' most of them 'say' to leave the old frame in and thus not messing with the original seals/flashing.????

kwikfishron 05-19-2010 04:40 PM

Maybe I’m not understanding you.

You want to install the new vinyl window inside of the old aluminum window frame?

pcl586 05-19-2010 06:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
perhaps this photo could clear up what I'm trying to ask...the white lines are the "stucco" flange (flush fin/retro rip).

As you can see my old alum frame sill and jamb are recessed back (toward interior of the house) but my measuring point (inner white line) would be back and in. So the new retrofit window would sit on the inner white line and the flush fin would butt up against the stucco. (not saying its correct but thats how I'm visualizing it??). With the new window in place there would be a gap around the bottom sill/jamb.

Am I just complete off on this...?? Thanks again

Tom Struble 05-19-2010 10:44 PM

so your plan is to install the new construction vinyl window over the aluminum frame from the outside?

when you read about leaving the existing aluminum frames on stucco houses to keep all the wrb and flashing intact,you would be using a insert window and installing it from the inside

pcl586 05-20-2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble (Post 444417)
so your plan is to install the new construction vinyl window over the aluminum frame from the outside?

when you read about leaving the existing aluminum frames on stucco houses to keep all the wrb and flashing intact,you would be using a insert window and installing it from the inside

no, not a new construction window. trying to install a retrofit window. just like the video below (apologize if I'm breaking rules regarding posting outside links):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBQq3YjJn-4

Ron6519 05-20-2010 11:14 AM

The lack of a formal flashing detail on the perimeter, integrating it behind the exterior fascade would concern me. Any other retro fit scenario would not just rely on caulk to shed water coming down the wall.
Ron

Tom Struble 05-20-2010 02:08 PM

hm mm so you want to foam in between the vinyl flange and the face of the aluminum window?yea i think that might be a good idea to reduce the chance of condensation but you have to make sure you leave some drainage areas on the bottom of the windows

i have never done this type of install,looks interesting and with proper sealing details...i don't know:laughing:

why can't you get the windows?Bradco carries simonton

pcl586 05-20-2010 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble (Post 444655)
hm mm so you want to foam in between the vinyl flange and the face of the aluminum window?yea i think that might be a good idea to reduce the chance of condensation but you have to make sure you leave some drainage areas on the bottom of the windows

i have never done this type of install,looks interesting and with proper sealing details...i don't know:laughing:

why can't you get the windows?Bradco carries simonton


i was thinking to try and fill in as much space as possible but not over doing it, especially with the foam. yeah, leaving perhaps the bottom sill empty for draining purposes makes sense and a good idea.

boy, i wish my old alum frames were the same kinds that are on ALL the retrofit DIY videos. The frames that are completely flush to the exterior already and also where the fixed glass comes right out after removing the middle brace!!

i'll give Bradco a shot but since the house is rental property, I'm re-evaluating my cost and may go Jenns at HD :).

thanks again


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