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Old 10-25-2009, 10:32 AM   #16
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


Your range is electric and does not require venting. Most ranges these days are not vented to the exterior and the range hoods simply pull the air through a filter and recirculate it. The flooring in the picture looks to run far enough back where you should not have any issues. Worse case scenario you have to try and match a few planks up which should be relatively easy to accomplish.

Again research the work triangle before continuing your design for the kitchen. This will give you a better understanding of how to lay out the kitchen. If you are going to remodel the kitchen then invest the time and money to do it correctly instead of doing a halfway job of it. Sometimes doing the job correctly means spending more money and doing things you would prefer not to do. If the budget is not there to do those things that need to be done then the best recourse is to wait until the funds are available to do the job correctly.

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Old 10-25-2009, 10:36 PM   #17
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


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(I will be able to move them around and see what works best)

Thanks!
This is not the best approach, please take some advice from someone here. Ordering cabinets now and figuring it out later is just not the way to go.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:35 AM   #18
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


This is not something I'm willing to entertain. I appreciate your advice, and I recognize the deficiency in the design, but neither the homeowner nor I are concerned about the stove placement. Thusly, it is more effort than either of us are willing to undertake to move the stove. It is compliant with code, there's no pressing need to move it, so it won't be moving. I do not wish to use a recirculating fan, as I find this to be a much more "ghetto" approach than leaving the stove against the wall. I do not wish to downgrade to 33" uppers so that I could add a bulkhead for the hood fan. I do not wish to move it to a location missing flooring either, as this is equally poor workmanship-wise. I do not wish to replace or in any way try to match an aged floor.

I've researched the work triangle and proper kitchen design. I recognize this as a defficiency, but it is one that is deemed acceptable by both the homeowner and I.

I would have no problem moving it when it is reasonable to do so. In this case, it isnt, and in the interest of moving on to other concerns -- the stove will not be moving.

----

Cabinets are coming out to approx $3300 from IKEA. Not bad :shrug:
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:07 AM   #19
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


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(I will be able to move them around and see what works best)
I would recommend you order plenty of filler strips if you are going to do this.

On the vent; you could run it through the ceiling to avoid building a sofit if losing space is the main concern. As to the "ghettoness" of the recirculating fan I would say budget reflects what is ultimately installed and the results that can be expected. There are models with advanced filtration systems that are anything but ghetto.

Matching the floor is not that difficult and not having the floor run all the way is poor craftsmanship and a sign to a would be buyer that corners where cut. If identified by potential buyers it could result in lost sales as most people generally will wonder where else corners where cut. Poor functionality will detract from the value of the remodel as well which could also affect the sale amount of the house. These comments are only meant as food for thought and not meant to be combative so please don't take them as hostile.

Anyway whatever you and your inlaws decide good luck and post some pictures when the project is complete.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:46 AM   #20
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


Fingers,

I agree with you on the location of the range. Not really worth moving if the home owner is happy with it where it is. Also, keeping the outside vent is well worth the sacrifice. My thinking, with a kitchen so small the work triangle is less important than is the best use of available space.

So... my biggest issue with your design is the loss of very valuable counter top (workspace) for the pantry while at the same time adding less valuable counter top next to the fridge that will not be used for cooking purposes. If it were a large kitchen, a catch all area like you are creating with the counter top beside the fridge would be a great place for a place for mail, a phone, books, flower vases and bricabrac and other junk. In a small kitchen such luxury is usually not worth sacrificing usable space. That said, if the kitchen is rarely used, then it makes little difference while on the other hand, if there is a baker in the house, they would just about kill to have a little more counter space in the work area.

Buying the cabinets to move them around is the best way if you have the space, time and money to order enough extra cabinets of different shapes and sizes to really get a good mix of layouts. For me that would not be practical. A few hours making a 3D scale model is what works best for me. I have a hard time visualizing 2D pictures sometimes.

What ever you do please continue to post your questions, ideas and progress.

Rege
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:13 AM   #21
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


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Originally Posted by RegeSullivan View Post
Fingers,

I agree with you on the location of the range. Not really worth moving if the home owner is happy with it where it is. Also, keeping the outside vent is well worth the sacrifice. My thinking, with a kitchen so small the work triangle is less important than is the best use of available space.

So... my biggest issue with your design is the loss of very valuable counter top (workspace) for the pantry while at the same time adding less valuable counter top next to the fridge that will not be used for cooking purposes. If it were a large kitchen, a catch all area like you are creating with the counter top beside the fridge would be a great place for a place for mail, a phone, books, flower vases and bricabrac and other junk. In a small kitchen such luxury is usually not worth sacrificing usable space. That said, if the kitchen is rarely used, then it makes little difference while on the other hand, if there is a baker in the house, they would just about kill to have a little more counter space in the work area.

Buying the cabinets to move them around is the best way if you have the space, time and money to order enough extra cabinets of different shapes and sizes to really get a good mix of layouts. For me that would not be practical. A few hours making a 3D scale model is what works best for me. I have a hard time visualizing 2D pictures sometimes.

What ever you do please continue to post your questions, ideas and progress.

Rege
Interesting!

I'll think this through thoroughly tonight and chat with the homeowner. She wanted that "butler's pantry" area for a phone/coffee maker, so that she wouldn't clutter her main work area.

With the plan as-is, she's gaining counter space in the following ways:
-30" gain from the refrigerator moving
-entire corner freed up from where the current countertop microwave oven sits

As always, more usable counterspace would be much appreciated!

What I can easily do is move both pantry cabinets to the left of the fridge (delete countertop), and get a 24" upper cab for above the fridge so that there's no need for gables/finishing panels on either side. Then just extend the countertop on the dishwasher side all the way into the corner.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:30 AM   #22
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Renovating in-laws' kitchen


I think with a small kitchen the triangle becomes less important
With everything in reach it's a little easier
At the same time a small chance like moving the fridge can make a lot of difference
My wife would love a floor to ceiling cabinet
I have found that having the fridge away from the other areas slightly helps
When the wife is cooking she uses the sink & stove - near each other
That leaves the fridge area open for easy access for drinks/ice

I used kitchen design software to layout cabinets, shows 3D too
I also went to HD & they used their software to do the same & verify my layout
They can also show you a 3D mock-up of your kitchen

Don't forget electric upgrades before putting the new cabinets up
Also a good time to add under cabinet lights

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