?Making Plastic Laminate suitable as a subsurface for tile?

onthebrinck

My kitchen has dark brown plastic laminate counters and backsplashes. I'm soon going to have a contractor replace the counters with stone (exactly what awaits my wife's final decision). Being budget conscious, I'll probably want to do the backsplashes myself. I can easily remove the backsplash in about half the kitchen since it's plastic laminated plywood or composite board glued to the wall with the edges nicely exposed for a prybar. But in one 12' length the plastic laminated plywood extends behind the upper kitchen cabinets (meaning the cabinets are probably secured through the plywood or there are runners up behind there). I don't think I want to take down all the cabinets to get to it. The area in question is framed by door frames, etc. and so I can apply up to 1/2" thickness of tile or whatever.

Now to the question: how to suitably abrade or remove the laminate surface to enable the tile mastic to stick ... or does someone have a clever idea for some other material? I was actually thinking about carefully multi-tooling around the outline of the cabinets and scoring the laminate and using paint thinner to melt the glue.

The rest of the kitchen is cream-colored lacquered cabinets, stainless appliances and oak floors

pyper

I put up a mosaic tile backsplash on plywood with construction adhesive. Seems to work.

You can also buy a roll of adhesive made for the purpose, but it's $38 for a roll, while construction adhesive is $2.

If it's a small area of wall, just glue the tile to the laminate. If you really want to remove the laminate, you could use an oscillating multi tool to cut the laminate all the way around and then scrape it off.

Bud Cline

Scarify the laminate surface with a heavy grit sand paper, ruin it and be done with it. Use a modified thinset to apply the tile and give it a few days to cure properly. The smaller the tile used the less time it takes to cure. No reason to cut out anything in this case.

Construction adhesive is never recommended for installing tile of any kind.

pyper

Not true -- this manufacturer of adhesives recommends it:

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/proje...backsplash.htm

Out of curiosity, how well does thinset adhere to plywood (i.e. cabinets)?

DannyT

the makers of some tile mastic say it can be used in showers. just because a manufacturer says something can be used in certain places doesnt mean its the best thing to use. if i had a tile or 2 that fell off on my backsplash i would use the locktite power grab stuff it really grabs, but i wouldnt use it for the whole backsplash, not for what a tub of mastic or a bag of thinset costs.

Bud Cline

Manufacturers want to sell their products. Manufacturers want some of their products to be all things to all people. Some manufacturers prey on the naive and ignorant. The manufacturer of the the "this" (secret product who shall remain nameless) qualifies for the above description.

When was the "this" tested by the appropriate laboratory for use with tile and where are the labs findings and conclusions published? And...why doesn't the Tile Council of North America and the American National Standards Institute know about this wonderful product?

Research that also while you are corroborating the above manufacturers statement you latched onto.

pyper

You seem to be pretty down on manufactures, but here's what your first source has to say: "For installation methods involving specific products, manufacturers are your best resource"

Bud Cline

I'm not down on manufacturers. However I don't agree with manufacturers that promote sales based on bogus information about their products ability to perform.

Show me the documentation pertaining to that secret product you are promoting and when I'm shown to be wrong I will gladly back down and may even add that product to my list of wonderful wonderful tile adhesives.

Here since you don't seem to understand the assignment I'll help you out some.

ALL manufacturers of chemical based products offer a MSDS Sheet on all of their products.

Most manufacturers have their products tested by either independent laboratories or some sanctioned testing entity as to the suitability of the specific product for a specific use.

Most manufacturers then submit their product for approval by some standards institute in hopes they will get a gold star and honorable mention in their recommendations.

Some manufacturers simply shoot from the hip and outright lie about the suitability of a product for a specific use and hope no one ever challenges them.

So show us the documentation to support what you say.

onthebrinck

OP here ... talk about a hijacked post! But I get the idea ... ... I think I'll abrade the surface and apply copper or stainless steel tiles. Can we move the discussion from there? Thanks, guys.

pyper

Bud,

I think you are misconstruing what I said. All I have said is that the manufacture of the product I mentioned recommends it for a particular use. The documentation to support what I said (i.e., that they recommend it) is in the link I provided.

Testing is expensive. Not tested doesn't mean won't work. Not tested doesn't mean inferior. All it means is no test has been performed. I'm pretty sure my computer was not tested by Dell to see if it would work on this forum, but that doesn't stop me from using it that way. Medical doctors prescribe drugs to patients in ways that have not been tested too (called "off label"). Sometimes bad things happen, but sometimes good things happen.

Just for fun I looked at the documentation for the tile I installed, and wood is listed as "not acceptable" for a substrate. Ditto for drywall. They don't mention plastic laminate. So if our OP is using the same kind of tile I have, then he must install concrete backer board (or a mortar bed), because that's the only method the manufacturer has tested and approved, right?

Either that, or he can do what many homeowners, and even some contractors have done, and use alternate methods. You suggested one yourself. I suggested two others.

If I have trouble with my tile backsplash, I'll let you know. If it fails, I suppose I'll need to cut out a section of my cabinet, replace it with Durock, and start over. But with a sheer strength of several hundred pounds/ square inch, I don't think I need to worry too much.

Bud Cline

Sorry OTB, when you have made twenty posts you are eligible to use the Private Messaging (PM) here. So PM me if you care to and we'll do this privately without the needless input and continual arguing.