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Old 04-27-2007, 10:56 AM   #1
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


I'll try and keep this brief....keep in mind we're using 3cm granite.

We're remodeling the kitchen (we're almost done). We took down part of the wall between the kitchen and dining room to open it up. One part of the wall was cut down where the bar top will go (dining room on one side/kitchen cabinets on the other). I've been told by a few places that sell granite that 15" wide for the granite is the max they would recommend before needing any type of support underneath the bar (overhang). I thought that was how wide our top would be, but I just found out today (templates/measurements already taken for bar top and coutnertops) that our bar top is ~13" - 13.5" wide. That seems rather narrow for a bar top. It will be sitting atop of the existing wall, constructed of 2x3 framing and drywall (1/2" I believe), as well as the granite backsplash on the one side. So, you're looking at about 4" of wall plus 3cm (1.25" of granite) to support the bar top. The bar top itself is about 4' - 5' long (probably closer to 4'), and I was going to have it cut in some sort of radius where the overhang portion (at the ends) would go out a few inches before curving. I guess that would mean the overhang would be at it's widest in the middle (although I haven't seen anything visual to confirm exactly what it will look like).

My questions:

1. How wide should the max be on a bar top before putting any type of additional support underneath, not just the overhang portion, but the entire width of the bar top? Keep in mind the radius cut mentioned above. I'm looking at, not only a cost thing, but also a nuisance thing since using any type of supports, with not much overhang may result in some busted up knees.

2. Does ~13"+ sound like a reasonable amount of bartop?

These next questions are concerning the installation of the bar top (I'm not doing any of this). The existing wall was cut down, not torn down and built back up. Therefore, you can see down between the drywall and studs.

3. How will the bar top be attached? I'm guessing a lot of silicone caulking underneath, and that's about it.

4. What should the top of the cut wall be finished with to set the granite on? The guy doing the work was going to put 2x3's between the studs in the existing wall to level off the top and close it up. I believe (i.e. assume) he would then finish it off with drywall or concrete board. What would be the correct way of finishing it off? Drywall or Concrete board? I'm thinking maybe concrete for a stronger bond.

Thanks for any input....so much for my keeping it brief.

Pic of area in question


Last edited by daveincincy; 04-27-2007 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:31 PM   #2
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


I am answering just make sure I subscrib to this thread... I am very interested in this topic... please post more pictures in between and after the project... Thanks... want to know how this thing being done.... for future references...

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Old 04-27-2007, 03:42 PM   #3
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Keep in mind, I am not a contractor. I am just giving my opinion because you asked for it.

You cannot or at least shouldnt just put 2 x 3's in the spaces between the studs. You need to build a header basically to support that granite or it will not last. You will also not want to use silicone to attach it. At the very least construction adhesive, and to be honest, you might want to use some type of "L" brackets underneath and bolted into the studs to support it further. If the total width of the granite is 13" and 3.5" is above the half wall, you will the rest just hanging in the breeze, waiting for someone to lean a bit too hard and it will fall on their feet. Personally, I wouldnt do it that way.
Also, I think there is code for that counter to be a certain width. I think I remember seeing 12" - 24" of overhang for something like that, but please check up on that. If your left with 9.5" of overhang, it is kinda small, the average dinner plate wont even fit on the part that overhangs. You should really consider cutting a little more of that wall down and building a proper, lever surface to sit the granite on. You might also consider attaching a 6" or 8" pine board on there first to give the granite a wider surface to be glued to. Looks like a recipe for disaster as you have it now, IMO. I'm sure the guys who do alot of this stuff will have more/better advice. Best of Luck.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:42 PM   #4
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Quote:
Originally Posted by zel View Post
Keep in mind, I am not a contractor. I am just giving my opinion because you asked for it.

You cannot or at least shouldnt just put 2 x 3's in the spaces between the studs. You need to build a header basically to support that granite or it will not last. You will also not want to use silicone to attach it. At the very least construction adhesive, and to be honest, you might want to use some type of "L" brackets underneath and bolted into the studs to support it further. If the total width of the granite is 13" and 3.5" is above the half wall, you will the rest just hanging in the breeze, waiting for someone to lean a bit too hard and it will fall on their feet. Personally, I wouldnt do it that way.
Also, I think there is code for that counter to be a certain width. I think I remember seeing 12" - 24" of overhang for something like that, but please check up on that. If your left with 9.5" of overhang, it is kinda small, the average dinner plate wont even fit on the part that overhangs. You should really consider cutting a little more of that wall down and building a proper, lever surface to sit the granite on. You might also consider attaching a 6" or 8" pine board on there first to give the granite a wider surface to be glued to. Looks like a recipe for disaster as you have it now, IMO. I'm sure the guys who do alot of this stuff will have more/better advice. Best of Luck.
I'm sure the granite company will know how it should be attached. Atleast I hope they do. I will be there when they put the tops in, and I will confirm that the wall and the way it is finished is sufficient to support it given the amount of overhang, etc. If it isn't, I'd hope they would tell me what needs to be done. They will be coming back out anyways since they still have to measure/template for the backsplash of the bar area on the kitchen side. They don't cut the backsplash until the countertops are installed.

I'm not sure I understand your comment about "3.5" is above the half wall" part. The granite is 3cm thick (1.25") so that is how much will be above the wall....wait a minute, I reread it and think I understand now. The wall is constructed of 2x3's and 1/2" drywall. There will be a backsplash of 3cm granite, and I assume there will be some overhang of the bartop on the kitchen side hanging over the backsplash, maybe .5" or so if I had to guess. Given the bartop will be ~13.5" wide, there will be ~5" + of bartop mounted to the wall and backsplash, leaving only ~8.5" of overhang on the dining room side of the wall (assuming my math is correct). A dinner plate should fit ok on a 13.5" wide bartop...a plate wouldn't be setting strictly on the overhang part of it. We'll see how it turns out. The bartop will be mainly for the kids to sit at, small kids, and eat lunch or a snack. Chances are, any adults sitting at the bar will only have a drink or nothing at all, just sitting there chatting.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:55 PM   #5
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KUI****G View Post
I am answering just make sure I subscrib to this thread... I am very interested in this topic... please post more pictures in between and after the project... Thanks... want to know how this thing being done.... for future references...
I have a before/after album, and can post it when it's finished....but here are a few in the meantime.

The wall that was removed.






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Old 05-02-2007, 02:00 PM   #6
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Looking into the kitchen from the dining room/area.








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Old 05-02-2007, 04:36 PM   #7
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Dramatic. Very nice. I wish my kitchen was that size, I'd love to have an island. I love wood floor kitchens.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:40 PM   #8
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


That looks great! It really changed the whole look inside that house, opening it up like that!
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:14 AM   #9
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


You are kind of lucky that there is not much underneath the wall or it is not a bearing wall allowing you to do that easier...
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:53 AM   #10
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Quote:
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You are kind of lucky that there is not much underneath the wall or it is not a bearing wall allowing you to do that easier...
The original plan was to remove the entire wall, or cut it down I should say for a longer bartop. However, as you can see in the last pic, there is a return vent in the part that was left intact. Moving it lower (below the bar) and removing the wall would have been a bad idea since we found out that the return not only pulls air from the dining area, but it's also part of some of the returns upstairs (2nd floor) as well as pulls fresh air from the attic (if there is such a thing as fresh attic air). I'm not too upset about it. It cut a little off the cost for the granite (less material). Also, had the bartop been longer, anyone sitting on that side of the bar would probalby be staring at a cabinet end ....or worse get hit in the head if the cabinet door were open.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:51 PM   #11
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Looks great more pics please
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:21 PM   #12
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Wow.... very nice ..... really opened up the space ...it was nice to start with -- btw if you're done with the old kitchen - my wife wants it.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:16 PM   #13
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


Just a quick update on the kitchen. The bar top is no longer an issue. It looks good. Now the issue is the countertops. We had 2 seams, and at each seam the granite was bowed. This left enough of a bump in the granite that if you slid a glass over it, the glass would likely tip over. I won't even mention how bad the epoxy looked after they filled the seams and had it feathered out up to 1" or more from the seam trying to make a smooth transition between pieces.....horrible. The installers knew it was bowed soon after laying it down, yet they continued to finish the job AND glue it down to the cabinets. How it even made it to our house in the first place is beyond me. Yes, they are tearing out the granite and replacing it. They better get it right the second time around. We keep delaying the tile guy for the backsplash until the granite is completed. All of this should be done in less than 2 weeks...I hope. The good thing is the kitchen is fully functional so it's not like we've been without a kitchen these last 2 - 3 weeks.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:24 PM   #14
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Kitchen remodel question (granite bar top) ASAP!


replacing it.... at no charges... I suppose...

that is one good thing about contracting out... I suppose

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