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Old 07-29-2015, 07:59 PM   #1
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grout


I am having rectified tile installed now with 3/16 grout lines.
pro spec oyster sanded grout was used with pro spec sealer added .. the grout dried all uneven and does not look good.
It was suggested that we put oyster unsanded grout over the the sanded grout. The sanded grout was done 2 days ago. A layer of unsanded grout was just applied in a small area and I am unsure if this is a good idea or not.

Thank you in advance!

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Old 07-29-2015, 08:08 PM   #2
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That small a line should have been unsanded in the first place.
No way would I have gone over what was there, it needed to be removed.
A picture would be nice.

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Old 07-29-2015, 08:59 PM   #3
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Joe, take your reading glasses off your forehead, msrq said the grout width is 3/16", so sanded is correct. However this grout can be used with gaps from 1/16 to ".

What "sealer" was added to the grout? Was it Grout Boost or ProColor Stain Guard Grout Additive? Or something else?

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Old 07-29-2015, 09:26 PM   #4
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pro spec brand sealer and pro spec oyster color sanded grout.... sorry grout size for this tile 1/8.....
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:12 PM   #5
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I was hoping you'd give the exact name of the grout and sealer.

ProSpec - is the name of the company, the grout used is probably called; ProColor sanded grout. Not sure which sealer was used, maybe it's not listed in their website.

Back to your Q. Blotchy grout is usually installer error, but there may be contributing factors. Applying unsanded grout to even out the color is a last ditch effort in the hope some of the new pigments make it blend. It may help, but wouldn't surprise me if the new texture will make the grout look different from the original and could create a new blotchy appearance.

A good cure if often a grout stain, but this unknown sealer has to be identified and researched. You said the sealer was "added" to, as apposed to applied after grouting. Makes a difference.

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Old 07-29-2015, 10:51 PM   #6
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pro spec pro color stain guard grout additive was added to pro spec grout and that was put down about 2-3 days ago. ....oyster was color which is light. My question would be... how will putting the unsanded grout, without the grout additive, adhere to the sanded grout, with the additive, that was put down 2-4 days ago? the tile guy is trying to fix it by putting unsanded grout without additive over the sanded grout which aleady has the sealer added. thanks....
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:54 AM   #7
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...when you say the grout dried uneven: do you mean blotchy with different coloring- or uneven like... it just wasn't tooled properly?

Blotchy discolorations are usually an issue with too much water added in the mixing process.

Improper tooling is usually the result of poor tile alignment or too much/little pressure when finishing the grouting process.

If I am correct in understanding you mistyped the grout size in the first post and it is 1/8" and not 3/16", I would have used non-sanded grout. All that said, and the fact that what is done is done- to correct this issue (and I don't know how flush to the tile surface the existing grout is...), I would take an oscillating multi-tool like a Dremel Multi-Max or any of the big brand Multi-tools (Fein, Makita etc, I love my Makita) and a 1/16" grout removal blade and score along all the grout lines. This would provide a better adhesion surface, mimicking a more normal grout joint for the non-sanded grout to adhere. If the tile was done well, you could also use a 1/8" grout removal blade instead, and clear closer to the tiles, and that would provide you with the best adhesion for the non-sanded grout.

I think there still could be a problem with that grout sealer allowing adhesion, but I'm not sure. Using something to score and grind down parts of the grout would be better than just applying a skim coat over the sealed sanded grout. Otherwise it's like putting latex paint over oil based paint. Where the paint will dry and peel away over time, the grout would dry and chip away without significant depth/adhesion surface.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:57 AM   #8
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How large an area is this, size of tiles? I agree removing all the grout would be ideal, but may be a big job, plus if the same guy re grouts, might have the same results.

I don't know of a grout removal adaptor for the oscillating tool that is narrower than ⅛", never seen one 1/16".

He needs to call the company and see if grout stain would work with the additive used.

Sanded is the right grout for ⅛", but coulda used either.

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Old 07-30-2015, 01:04 PM   #9
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Dremel makes it- sold at my local big orange store: http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-MM501-1...l+1%2F16+grout

It's not the most common size removal blade (due to it's narrow size I believe..) which is why I no longer favor 1/16 grout joints when 1/8 look just as good, but 1/16 joints are also very common. But also- as was stated, it could be a very big task depending on the tile pattern (subway would be a lot more difficult since it's not a regular grid and that's what this tool favors- a square grid) and size.

I would also be VERY wary of this tiler. Anyone can buy a tile saw, a bucket, some sponges and knee pads, a drill, a mixing bit, and some notched trowels and call themselves a tiler. I have a guy I work with- he can tile, and he can tile fast. I wouldn't have him tile my home, however and I am very hesitant to have him do work without me around on our apartments. I can tile, but slowly- however I do a great job. I just don't like it (the drying out of my hands sucks, and I hate using lotion ). Anyways, it's one of those jobs that isn't like electrical where you can jest your way through stuff without dire consequences, and thus it's a lot more common to have someone say they can do it, and not worry about potential repercussions.

I don't know if he's part of a tiling company, a guy off the corner, a friend of a friend, or something else, but I would be careful. The fact that you're questioning him on here says something about that.

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Old 07-30-2015, 08:00 PM   #10
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Hurray for Dremel to make one that narrow. Anyway, there's another choice if the OP wants to go that way.

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Old 01-11-2016, 06:58 PM   #11
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Owner of StainGuard Grout Additive


To whom it may concern. I have been a tiler, Home Remodeler and Inspector for 21 years. I have read through all the message boards looking for someone who posted. I am glad to be here.

Allow me to first say that adding to much water is ALWAYS the first primary condition that sets off a blemished mottled grout job. Mottled for those who do not know is an uneven discolored look. Sometime lack of color and sometimes fish eyes in the grout line. I have seen streaks also. These discoloration are due to uneven washing from having to much water present prematurely during the grout clean up stage. All of us with experience knows when the timing is right to begin clean up and of course when not to. The ProSpec Stain Guard additive which is the same as AquaTight stain guard additive is scientifically engineered in both the lab and in the field with many years of trials before going to market. This includes setting up field trials. That being said. The bottle fluid amount is to allow for 19.6% water to cement ratio with any sanded grout. The same fluid in the bottle can be used on unsanded portland grout. Do not use it on pozzalan grouts. Completely different chemistry and another topic. AquaTight and ProSpec additive contain a patented unique binding agent to retard or stop efflorescence and to encapsulate salts to prevent scaling. The encapsulation also aids in preventing oxidation of the metal surfaces protecting them. You'll notice when mixing the rich color in the bucket is tremendously even and when installed.

We have had tremendous success with thousands upon thousand of installation with real contractors who know what there doing with the wash cycles. But with or without additives you can always guarantee someone who does not know how to wash, when to wash and as a result inevedibly pulling pigments off the floor and into the bucket of water. It takes a simple flow of water running down a grout line and you can even see the pigments separate from the grout and sometimes it looks milky to grey depending on the amount of water dumped on. Let me add that too much water in the sponge is the same as deliberately adding to much water to the washing of the floor. I laugh sometimes too. My favorite question is, " Please show me how you do your installs and washing". Of course I ask a deliberate and broad questions because the fruit of your labor is in front me right when I need to see it. And sure enough the installer takes the sponge, dunks it into the bucket then gives it one single handed fist pump to strain the sponge and drips to pours water on the floor as it runs out the rounded corner of the sponge. My second favorite thing is watching the water drip into the grout line and cause a bleed of the pigment and lifting the cement paste right out. Basically all you have left from over washing is sand if your lucky.

So I know its a lot to read but those who are experiences get this.

So what is the fix after over washing and what is the answer to adding more grout over top of the already hardened portland. Number 1. You can't. Placing a thing layer is introducing a new variable and it will spall ( crack, crumble and lift away) 2. Once the damage is done from user error then the user that created the mess gets to cut out the grout and start over.

Some lessons.

Before mixing any grout. If you are going to use more than one bag of grout make sure the lots are the same. You want to make sure the bag of grout is dry blended again before mixing with water or additive. Bags of grout tend to settle during shipping and moving around. Heavier particles go down and lighter particles move up. So dry blend slowly. If doing a larger area blend the two bags together if you want to insure same color overall.

1. Sponge cleaning only with a virgin sponge. Not a borrowed one or brought over from another job. Unless you love contaminating your job and kicking the can or blaming someone else. But anyway. IF the grout does not lift away onto your sponge, paper or your finger tip THEN the grout is ready to lightly clean. ( BUT I WANT THE JOB DONE QUICK) Forgettaboutit. There is no such thing as finesse, quality and perfection in the same sentence as quick or haste.
Your sponge must be damp on all sides and center. That's it.

2. Your task is to remove over burden and groom without flooding grout lines or removing grout from the grout lines.

3. Do not use any cleaners of any kind anywhere during any part of the process.

4. Once the burden is removed from tile surfaces then let dry and the grout in the lines to stiffen. If you are patient and have completed at least 5 passes over each tile then you should see the tile to some degree.

5. Let sit over night.

6. Using a dry towel or again a damp sponge begin removing haze. We use inztashine.com PH basic cleaners for this as they don't eat the grouts. Acids and Caustics will devour the grout today and tomorrow and forever.

7. If you are wishing to seal for waterproofing then wait for initial cure or what the manufacturer recommended. We produce a product called HydraGuard. You will seal the grout immediately with this product. youtu.be/2ThuGlX2bcM paste this link into your browser



The StainGuard additive is mainly distilled water with a patented proprietary custom additive. The fluid is clear as water. You never want to mix tap water with the grout after using the additive. Tap water contains many metals which can cause our additive to precipitate and drop out depending on the source of that water. Never retemper either. This means after initial setting begins to never add more water just so you can use the batch of grout. Only mix enough grout you know can be used for the given workable square foot space. Experienced installers know this.

I hope this is helpful. Remember we private label the additive for ProSpec and we have own label called AquaTight Feel free to email info@h2obtech.com any questions to call 678-302-0377.

Last edited by hharshaw; 01-11-2016 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:10 PM   #12
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Jazman. When you get the chance please call me at 678-508-2609. Thanks

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