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Old 12-10-2007, 10:19 PM   #16
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Granite Countertops and Restaining


What I'm questioning is, is it waterproof from the bottom? This is where most leaks are and where water damage starts. If you're applying it over a substrate, be it new or old, it's only as good as that substrate is. If you're applying it over a ten year old laminate top, then you really only have whatever the lifespan of the substrate of that top is, and there's no way that it's anywhere near the life of a solid stone, or even solid surface top.

I think it all boils down to one simple question. Why would you pay $63 sf for this product when you can have the real thing or an engineered stone for the same price?

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Old 12-11-2007, 07:47 AM   #17
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What I'm questioning is, is it waterproof from the bottom? This is where most leaks are and where water damage starts.
Sure, it depends on the cut out size for you sink. I think I have about an 1-1/2" larger than the sink, and the sink is water tight against the counter top. So unless there's an abnormal large amount of water, it would be the same regardless of which counter top material is being used.
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If you're applying it over a substrate, be it new or old, it's only as good as that substrate is. If you're applying it over a ten year old laminate top, then you really only have whatever the lifespan of the substrate of that top is, and there's no way that it's anywhere near the life of a solid stone, or even solid surface top.
Can't agree more...and it goes with out saying. Unfortunately someone going to use the product over a swollen up POC (piece of c_ap) counter top and it'll fail and black their eye.. I would hope the installers evaluate each installation thoroughly enough to assess the counters durability.
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I think it all boils down to one simple question. Why would you pay $63 sf for this product when you can have the real thing or an engineered stone for the same price?
One thing we've not mentioned here is that many homes may not have have the necessary sub-structure to support the added weight of the stone product.

The maintenance items previously listed were huge for us. We didn't want any product that would absorb common household items, wine, oil, vinegar marks, nothing. Our prices were >$10 less than any stone bid we had and we didn't see the added value for us. That's not to say that Granite Transformations is the right product for everyone, it's not, just as stone is not the right product for everyone. My wife and I built our house together with with our labor, blood, sweat and tears. We're in it for the long haul and not planning on flipping it anytime soon. God willing, we'll retire and entertain our grand children in this house.

Way OT with regards to this topic -- since you work with stone, how difficult is it to get a piece of stone about 5/16" thick, 1/2" tall by about 4' wide?
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:32 PM   #18
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Thanks for all of the great information. So just to be clear, Rippy you do have the transformation countertop in your home?

What is the benefits/drawbacks to quartz vs. (solid-not transformation)granite?
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:04 PM   #19
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RS, I sent you a pm.

Kenny, the primary advantage to the engineered stone is that you can control the quartz content thereby making the top more resistant to heat marks and stains. It's reported to be easier to cut and edge and isn't as susceptible to cracking along a grain, making it easier to install. It is heavier though.

The natural stone needs to be sealed from time to time, which is a very easy task with the right materials. It can stain, but if well-sealed and maintained the chances are lessened. Most stains are from oils I'd say. You can remove most stains from most granites. Not all granite is equal, quartz content varies and generally speaking the higher the quartz content, the fewer problems with stains.

The primary benefit of real stone is the appearance. Man just can't duplicate what takes nature millions of years.

My personal favorite is soapstone. I love the look, the feel and the colors. It's easy to cut and easy to maintain.
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Old 12-13-2007, 08:48 AM   #20
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Thanks for all of the great information. So just to be clear, Rippy you do have the transformation countertop in your home?
Yes, and we'd do the same if we were to do it again.

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What is the benefits/drawbacks to quartz vs. (solid-not transformation)granite?
In a nut shell for us it's the fact that you have no maintenance, no staining, yet have the look and feel of stone. I have stone tops in the bathrooms, and while they look good now, I can see were the kids toothpaste rinsing cup sits. Anytime it gets wet there's water spots...granted they go away as it evaporates...but just the same it looks odd.

As for a comparison to quartz and granite...I can't give it to you since I don't have enough experience to give you a good picture. Call them up and ask for samples.
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Old 12-26-2007, 05:53 PM   #21
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Can there be different "Levels" or different "quality" of granite? Or is granite, granite? I went into another place that is offering solid granite at approx. $15-20 sq foot lower than what I am seeing elsewhere. I am told that they get the product from multiple locations, in the world, depending on the colors of the granite and then it is "cut" locally. Is this normally how it works? How can their price be so much lower? I am told that it is a "sale" on certain colors. Thanks for the input.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:28 PM   #22
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I forgot to mention as I sure someone will say, the granite that is lower in price is 3 cm in thickness. Thanks!
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:10 PM   #23
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Rippy Skippy....I am so glad you enjoy your Rocksolid Granit that was installed. My mom and stepfather just bought a Granite Transformations franchise a few weeks ago. We were first introduced to the product when they had it installed in their house a few years ago. It is amazing stuff and hense we were all interested in getting it involved with it ourselves. To me there is no better product on the market for countertops as this. I've seen a few other posts from different topics where they say this product does not compare to engineered stone. They must be uninformed about what Rocksolid granit is.....it is an engineered stone!! Silestone is about 92% quartz, 8% polymer resin, but is then dyed to different colors as pure quartz is naturally white. Rocksolid granit is a mixture of 95% granite as well as quartz and 5% polymer resin. There are no artificial dyes....which means over time it will not fade if exposed to UV rays (unlike Silestone). It is engineered in 1/4" inch slabs because we are able to do so. We are the only company that has the technology and patent to do so. Why would you demo your kitchen if you didn't have to??? Yes....I agree with the above posts. No.....you don't want to put another solid surface over one that is not solid itself. In that case it would just need to be ripped out and started over with, but If you have a solid surface to start with why rip it out and start over?? It's not only an inconvenience, its messy, costs money, and takes time. So if engineered stone products hold their value over time i.e. silestone...... than this product definitely will.To answer your question about the different quality of granite. For sure there are different grades of natural granite, hense the price differences in the product. No one can argue the beauty of natural granite, but is it for everyone?? I don't believe so. It does need to be maintained and natural granite is only as good as it's sealant. It is porous and thus stains if it is not taken care of properly. It can crack and it can burn. Yes better quality granites hold up better than less quality. Rocksolid granit is not a cheap substitute for regular granite. It is better. For good quality granite you will pay upwards of $60/sf. There are companies advertising cheap prices for granite, I would be wary as to the quality of the product. Yes Rocksolid granit is comparible pricewise to high-grade granite because it is. It is worth every penny of the $65/sf that is being charged for it. Could you afford regular granite for that price?? Yes....for sure. But for me, I couldn't justfy spending $65/sf and then have no warranty, have to seal it and hope it never stains, cracks, etc. etc. because there is no warranty with granite (natural product disadvantage). I'm not sure about the other franchises, but we offer a limited lifetime warranty or a 10 year transferable warranty. If I'm spending thousands of dollars on a product, I better not have to replace it in 1 year, 5 years, or even 10 years unless I decide I just want to. Just some thoughts!!!! Hope you enjoy whatever product you choose!!!!
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:12 PM   #24
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GT Salesperson

Last edited by JanMoneyLady; 02-11-2009 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Too many arguements not worth the effort
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:55 PM   #25
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there's this granite called "Stonemark, by innovative stone" which has protection called Permashield, anyone familiar with it? It says it is second to none for durability, stain-resistance and no sealing convenience.

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 06-28-2010 at 09:38 PM. Reason: removed advertising links
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:42 PM   #26
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GT Salesperson

Yes I have seen and heard about it. It is granite that has been pre-treated and sealed with a special process. Haven't heard much about how long the sealant lasts. I looked for it here and found it to be starting at $52 sq ft additional based on color, plus edging, demo at $8-10 a square. The color range we liked was $63.00 plus $11 ln ft for edging and $10.00 square ft for demo.

Was higher than thought it should be.
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:42 PM   #27
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Yes I have seen and heard about it. It is granite that has been pre-treated and sealed with a special process. Haven't heard much about how long the sealant lasts. I looked for it here and found it to be starting at $52 sq ft additional based on color, plus edging, demo at $8-10 a square. The color range we liked was $63.00 plus $11 ln ft for edging and $10.00 square ft for demo.

Was higher than thought it should be.

The salesperson at HD said it's cheaper here since it comes via the port, compared to the upper states, so we shall see. I do know however, that the granite comes with a 10 yr warranty. Thanks for your input.
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:51 PM   #28
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If you look at the video demonstrations below regarding testing of Innovative Stone's Stonemark granite sealed with Permashield sold at Home Depot will answer your question. I have personally poured water on both sides of Stonemark granite and within seconds the top of the countertop started absorbing water and the backside instantly.









http://www.graniteshieldcountertops....seandcare.html

Thanks,
Debbie
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:29 PM   #29
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I can't get real technical about the makeup of various products, but I can tell you that I had Granite Transformations do my counter tops a week ago and I LOVE them!! The no maintenance and stain resistance was a huge plus for me!
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:24 PM   #30
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GT Salesperson


Last edited by JanMoneyLady; 02-11-2009 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Facts not worth the effort
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