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-   -   Framing and french doors (http://www.diychatroom.com/f15/framing-french-doors-169386/)

beginner50 01-17-2013 02:27 PM

Framing and french doors
 
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I am new to the site, I just bought a house that was built in 1915. I want to take out a back wall in the kitchen and replace with French doors leading out to a deck I will build when it gets warmer. I really have no idea how to go about
it but want to do it and make sure it right!! Any help is appreciated thanks!!

woodworkbykirk 01-17-2013 03:32 PM

if youve never done this sort of thing best not do so by yourself. hire someone who knows what their doing. on an older home like that it might be balloon framed which makes for a trickier process of getting a proper header in.. and temporarily supporting hte floor above while you cut the wall apart to make the correct rough opening for the new door

beginner50 01-17-2013 03:36 PM

Would it be the same as tearing down a wall between my kitchen and dining room?? The only thing on that wall is the thermostat!

joecaption 01-17-2013 03:43 PM

Going to be deal with a lot of issures with an older home, as mentioned, ballon walls, no bottom plate, thicker walls so you need wider jambs or jamb extentions, no header above that window, flashing under the siding.
Also the biggest issue will be the level of the deck on the other side of that wall.
It has to be at least 4" min. below the doors threshold or you can plan on damage inside the house.
Totaly differant then installing a door in a modern home.

beginner50 01-17-2013 03:50 PM

So basically I would have to get a contractor to come out and check it all?? Does anyone have any good estimated on prices for both jobs??

joecaption 01-17-2013 03:56 PM

No one here is going to be giving any prices, for a whole lot of reasons.
Even if they did what good would it do you?
Call around and get some real prices.

At least 90% of the sliders and french doors I see where installed wrong even by the "Pros".
Do some reseach, know how it should be done before hiring anyone.
If you know how it should be done far less likly you will fall for there BS.

beginner50 01-17-2013 03:58 PM

Alright guys I really appreciate your answers, kinda why I asked because it is such an old house and I don't wanna get started and be stuck!

Thanks

joecaption 01-17-2013 04:07 PM

Sucks standing there with a big hole in the wall scratching your head trying to figure out how to do it.
That's why I have no hair on the back of my head.:laughing:

oh'mike 01-17-2013 05:26 PM

A shot from the outside of the house would help---

What is different in older houses than in todays houses---longer boards were cheap---

So if you wanted a 2 story house with a knee wall on top of the foundation---that wall was 2 1/2 stories tall----then the floor joists were added to the wall---https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...B_0SuVuIKvIlkwhttp://www.diychatroom.com/data:imag...RuKanRuKVB/9k=

funfool 01-17-2013 06:56 PM

What you can do, strip the plaster off of that wall down to framing. You will need to go wider then the new door width, not much left so I would strip the whole wall instead of trying to patch it with new drywall later.

Then send us a photo of the wall framing and will be able to give better answers.
Would also save you money as sweat equity, if you have a contractor install the door.
Contractor comes out and looks at it as is now, will have no clue what surprises lie in the wall once he opens it up.
Contractor will love you for this, makes his job faster and easier, he can give you a decent bid because he can see what needs to be done, and jump in and go to work without spending 1/2 a day just to strip the wall and then go buy material after he sees the framing.

And this is a diy forum, you will get good advise here. Hanging doors correctly is a learned skill. And french doors really can be tricky for those that call themselves a professional carpenter.
Just not the first door to hang, if you never installed doors before.

A good chance though, you strip the wall, send us photos, will get proper advice on how to proceed, and if you are not in a big hurry, can remove the windows, board them up for weather, do most if not all of framing from inside, come back next weekend and open up the siding and hang the doors.

beginner50 01-17-2013 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funfool
What you can do, strip the plaster off of that wall down to framing. You will need to go wider then the new door width, not much left so I would strip the whole wall instead of trying to patch it with new drywall later.

Then send us a photo of the wall framing and will be able to give better answers.
Would also save you money as sweat equity, if you have a contractor install the door.
Contractor comes out and looks at it as is now, will have no clue what surprises lie in the wall once he opens it up.
Contractor will love you for this, makes his job faster and easier, he can give you a decent bid because he can see what needs to be done, and jump in and go to work without spending 1/2 a day just to strip the wall and then go buy material after he sees the framing.

And this is a diy forum, you will get good advise here. Hanging doors correctly is a learned skill. And french doors really can be tricky for those that call themselves a professional carpenter.
Just not the first door to hang, if you never installed doors before.

A good chance though, you strip the wall, send us photos, will get proper advice on how to proceed, and if you are not in a big hurry, can remove the windows, board them up for weather, do most if not all of framing from inside, come back next weekend and open up the siding and hang the doors.

So just strip the inside wall? Then call a contractor?? I have never done anything like this just bought the house in oct. just want to get it fixed up and looking nice. I have plans to basically rip up carpet refinish all the hardwood floors tear one wall down put the French doors in and build a deck!!! Repaint all the rooms put all new flooring in the kitchen and bathrooms and then head upstairs and basically same up there!! I have some work ahead of me!!!

funfool 01-17-2013 08:59 PM

No need to touch the outside yet. I wanted to post a photo of a wall on a 100 year old house.
Everything seemed fine, and did not matter because we were adding a addition and this wall was going away. DIY does not like the format of the photo, here is a link to it.
http://i48.tinypic.com/zv518h.png

Could you imagine trying to install a exterior door in that wall?
We want to assume your house is built exactly as it should be, As a remodel carpenter, I smile when I see things were done right, so many surprises when you open a wall.
Couple weeks ago I opened a wall and installed 2 french doors side by side, 4 doors.
I new there was a electrical wire to deal with, was an outlet under the existing window.
Open the wall and find the home run to the service panel was in that wall.
This was a simple fix, but added time and money to the job.

Just remove the drywall and plaster from the inside, and the whole story will be out on the table. You will see what obstacles you need to climb over, be it electrical, plumbing, bad framing. Is all easily fixed.

My only point I am trying to make, what looks like a simple job may be simple and smile.
You are willing to get your hands dirty and jump in and work.
First step is expose the framing and let us see what you are working with.
Is no contractor you can hire with x ray vision to know what is in the wall.
Said contractor will charge you by the hour, on the remodel, or hit you high on a bid to cover any surprises he may find.
By removing the drywall yourself, you are removing the surprise factor. And saving several hours on labour for demo. But nobody here can see inside your walls either.

beginner50 01-17-2013 09:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by funfool
No need to touch the outside yet. I wanted to post a photo of a wall on a 100 year old house.
Everything seemed fine, and did not matter because we were adding a addition and this wall was going away. DIY does not like the format of the photo, here is a link to it.
http://i48.tinypic.com/zv518h.png

Could you imagine trying to install a exterior door in that wall?
We want to assume your house is built exactly as it should be, As a remodel carpenter, I smile when I see things were done right, so many surprises when you open a wall.
Couple weeks ago I opened a wall and installed 2 french doors side by side, 4 doors.
I new there was a electrical wire to deal with, was an outlet under the existing window.
Open the wall and find the home run to the service panel was in that wall.
This was a simple fix, but added time and money to the job.

Just remove the drywall and plaster from the inside, and the whole story will be out on the table. You will see what obstacles you need to climb over, be it electrical, plumbing, bad framing. Is all easily fixed.

My only point I am trying to make, what looks like a simple job may be simple and smile.
You are willing to get your hands dirty and jump in and work.
First step is expose the framing and let us see what you are working with.
Is no contractor you can hire with x ray vision to know what is in the wall.
Said contractor will charge you by the hour, on the remodel, or hit you high on a bid to cover any surprises he may find.
By removing the drywall yourself, you are removing the surprise factor. And saving several hours on labour for demo. But nobody here can see inside your walls either.

Ok I got ya! But none of the walls in here are drywall they are all the laff ( not sure how to spell that ) the ones in the kitchen except one wall aren't even that its board! Not sure if you can see what I mean in the pic. I don't know if that's easier to tear away from the wall or no but as you can see I do have one outlet above the windows!!

joecaption 01-17-2013 09:23 PM

There's just one of the likly goofy things you'll find when working on an old house.
Why in the world would anyone put an outlet over instead of under a window?
Right now you have paneling on the wall but there's no telling what your going to find under it.

You keep mentioning about at some point removing a wall in another area.
#1 Someone that knows what there looking at needs to figure out if it's a supporting wall, if it is and you remove it anything above it is going to at a minimum start to sag.

beginner50 01-17-2013 09:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah I don't understand why the outlet is up there?? Here is a pic of the wall I want to tear down not sure if anyone can tell from a pic but let me know!


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