Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-18-2012, 10:30 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 803
Share |
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Try to leave a foot or so if possible around the breaker box to start framing. This way you have access to the sides of the panel if you ever want to add anything to it. So picture it as making a window box around the panel that is about a foot larger on all sides. Then finish it with trim and access doors.

mikegp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 06:16 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Correct, no dryloc.
XPS or cheaper EPS (use thicker for same R-value).
1” f.b.XPS is probably good for your location, compare your annual heating degree days with these City’s and f.b. thickness: http://www.buildingfoundation.umn.ed...timum-main.htm B.S.C is covering themselves with the 2”.
Check locally with AHJ on furnace room, outside air source, etc.
Glue in squares pattern: http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743
No poly sheeting, as said-wall has to dry inward: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...lation-systems
Rim: f.g. AFTER f.b.(from inside); http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...l_seal_rev.pdf
Sill sealer under p.t. plate for thermal/air/capillary break: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-building-code
ADA: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

Mikegp, I understood the service panel has to have the drywall flush and tight to the box?: http://electrical.about.com/od/elect...almistakes.htm

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 07:12 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 803
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


GBR, what number in the link are you referring to?
mikegp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 07:27 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 803
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


http://dailyhomerenotips.com/wp-cont...panel-door.jpg

That's what I mean.

mikegp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 10:28 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Found what I was thinking of: E3907.3 Position in wall. In walls of concrete, tile or other noncombustible material, cabinets and panelboards shall be installed so that the front edge of the cabinet will not set back of the finished surface more than 1/4 inch (6.4 mm). In walls constructed of wood or other combustible material, cabinets shall be flush with the finished surface or shall project therefrom.
From: http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...007_par002.htm

I thought the drywall had to be tight to the panel, no gaps that fire could race in.
E3907.4 Repairing noncombustible surfaces. Non-combustible surfaces that are broken or incomplete shall be repaired so that there will not be gaps or open spaces greater than 1/8 inch (3.2 mm) at the edge of the cabinet or cutout box employing a flush-type cover.
From; http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...007_par003.htm


Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 10:53 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Thank you again for all the responses. I would like to ensure I understand this correctly. I need to follow the airtight drywall approach. This means I need to air seal the top of the walls using spray foam since this is an area that can leak a lot of air. I need to seal the top and bottom of the sheetrock and also seal the ends of sheetrock on the ends of each wall. The reason I am doing this is to create my vapor barrier and this is better than using a plastic sheet. A vapor barrier’s function is to prevent the movement of warm moist air from the heated interior of the home into the cooler areas in the wall cavity. If the air migration were allowed, the warm air wood cool and its moisture would be left behind the wall cavity where it could cause wood rot as well as mold and mildew.

As for framing around the electrical box, it makes sense to leave 12 inches for future access. This also means it is safe to bring the foam with 12 inches of the electrical box? I just want to make sure it is not a fire hazard.
VikingDinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


The drywall is an air barrier, it lets the water vapor through the wall as it slowly comes through the foam (vapor retarder). No vapor barrier (poly sheeting) in below-grade application for your location: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...g-your-basment Air leaks account for 100 times more moisture than vapor diffusion.
If worried about the box, fill closest two inches with canned fire-foam.
Fire-stop the wall top (above the foam), and every 10' horizontally, to limit a fire from the floor cavities above: http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...002_par031.htm


Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:57 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Thank you for all the feedback.
VikingDinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VikingDinKC For This Useful Post:
Gary in WA (01-20-2012)
Old 01-24-2012, 09:56 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Sorry for so many questions but I am trying to figure out what is the best approach. Since I now have an idea on what is required to frame and insulate a wall, I priced the supplies I would need at Home Depot since I want to compare it to the cost of spray foam. To make the comparison easy, I just calculated what it would cost to do a 4x8 section (since that is the size of 1 foam board).

Here is my supply and price list:

1 4x8 sheet of XPS foam board - $26
1 role of R-13 insulation (covers a little more than 4x8 area) - $11
1 can of Great Stuff - $4
1 can of all-purpose adhesive - $4.50
1 roll of insulation tape - $10.50

Total: $56 for 4x8 section but many of these items will cover more than just 4x8 section

I called a local contractor and got a quote that it costs $2.20 per sprayed square foot for spray foam. A 4x8 section is 32 square feet so the cost is $70.40.

My assumption is that only the concrete walls get spray foamed since my builder already insulated the wood section of the walls with fiberglass insulation (it is a daylight basement). So I measured the concrete and I have almost 600 square feet of concrete walls. That puts the spray on foam cost at around $1306.80. I then measured how many 4x8 sheets I would need to cover this area and it takes 19. Using the $56 figure, I then rounded down to $900 since many of the supplies will be used for more sections (tap, adhesive, great stuff).

So my question is... is spray on foam worth $400 more? My understanding is that it will seal better so it will have some heating/cooling benefits but I am guessing that is minimal. There is also a time savings here since I could start framing walls now instead of completing the foam insulation and fiberglass insulation after framing.

Just looking for some advice from the many knowledgeable people here.

One other comment… three of my friends finished their basements and did not do any of the foam insulation and they think it is not worth the cost. Am I being too careful or are they taking a risk of getting mold in their insulation and will be paying for it later with their heating/cooling bills?
VikingDinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 05:07 AM   #25
Thread killer
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 288
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Don't underestimate the benefits of air sealing. It could quite likely be more than a minimal difference.
Plus, you haven't really put a value on your time, which the spray foam contractor has. They, most likely, will be done in a day or less. For you to get the same level of air sealing, will most likely be considerably longer than a day, no matter how experienced you are. Put a value on your time and see how close the estimate gets
As for your friends and doing it without foam, they may get mold, they may not. Whatever way you choose to go, your chances of getting mold will be much smaller as you've given the most likely places for it to spread, nothing to feed on. I would consider the extra cost, peace of mind insurance
Canucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 11:03 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Thank you for the response, you make some great points... piece of mind and time savings does have value.
VikingDinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


"One other comment… three of my friends finished their basements and did not do any of the foam insulation and they think it is not worth the cost. Am I being too careful or are they taking a risk of getting mold in their insulation and will be paying for it later with their heating/cooling bills?" -------

Compare the f.g. only to the f.b. as far as moisture risk: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...study-analysis

Compare the R-value vs. savings: http://www.quadlock.com/technical_li...Insulation.pdf
You'll be happier later...

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gary in WA For This Useful Post:
VikingDinKC (01-28-2012)
Old 01-28-2012, 06:22 AM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 30
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingDinKC View Post
Thank you for the feedback on how to insulate around pipe. Do you use this same approach around the utility (breaker) box? Not sure how close I want the foam and spray foam to be next to the utility box since I do not want it to be a fire hazard/

In response to what zone, I live in Kanas City MO, which appears to be the top of zone 4. So, based on your response it sounds like I should use the foam on concrete perimeters surfaces that will be finished but should not put it over the wood framed walls which are above ground level. This works for me since I am most likely going to put a little ledge where the concrete transitions to the wood frame.

As for materials, here are the notes I have put together. Any feedback you have is appreciated.

How to finish the walls
• Do not drylock interior concrete walls since the exterior was waterproofed. Below grade portions of the wall will not dry if they are sealed from both sides.
• Install extrude polystyrene insulation boards – minimum of 1-1/2 inches of rigid insulation board – probably go with 2 inch XPS foam board. All perimeter walls that get framed and finished should have the foam board against it. Do not put foam board in the furnace room since it is flammable and creates overpowering fumes when it burns. Also, do not foam board wood framed walls which are above ground level.
• Use an all-purpose adhesive that’s approved for Styrofoam (not liquid nails)… when applying to the wall, it should be a tight fit
• Tape each joint with construction tape, by taping the joints you are helping keep moisture and cold air from infiltrating into the stud wall cavity (Tyvek Tape or Dow Construction Tape). Also, use adhesive in the foam joints.
• Seal top and bottom of the foam board using spray foam from a can (Great Stuff) so it acts as a vapor barrier
• Frame basement wall – leave 1 inch gap between foam and framed wall to allow for air flow.
• Insulate stud wall cavity – install fiberglass insulation in the wall cavities to create a final composite R value that meets the energy code requirements (R13)
• Install rim joist insulation – use spray foam, foam board or fiberglass insulation
• Complete needed electrical, plumbing, etc.
• Vapor barrier - the best vapor barrier is a polyethylene plastic sheet (4 or 6 mil) spread over the studs and stapled in place – not 100% sure this is needed if the foam board is sealed but the cost is low so I am thinking of doing it
• Finish wall surfaces with sheet rock
Do you need to have a 1 inch gap between styrofoam and wall? OR can you put the 2x4 wall against the concrete foam between joists?
Tiny207 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 09:35 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


GBR_in_WA posted this article.

http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743

From the article:

An air space behind basement insulation will not solve condensation problems. It can, in fact, cause condensation problems -- and create new problems to boot.

Insulation pushed directly against the basement wall will effectively prevent these air convection loops. With no air currents, the only moisture that can get through the wall is what can diffuse slowly up to the top of the wall and out through the wall without causing saturation conditions.

Last edited by VikingDinKC; 01-28-2012 at 09:38 AM.
VikingDinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 130
Default

Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?


Why not glue the foam with Pl300 or what ever construction adhesive is foam friendly and then laminate the drywall directly to the foam? Simply, fast, solid and it works well. That's how I did my walls. You don't need to screw anything, just glue. By the way, for the drywall to the foam you can use drywall compound to laminate the board to the foam, just make sure you use taping mud.

dberladyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rigid foam board on basement floor is it good or bad cutnail Insulation 6 08-29-2011 07:48 AM
Did I need to use Foam board in basement? dbeers16 Building & Construction 8 01-04-2011 01:01 PM
Basement subfloor questions FirefighterGW Flooring 56 10-13-2010 02:07 PM
Best way to insulate basement walls / floor? benze Building & Construction 1 09-07-2010 07:17 PM
Over insulate basement? braverichard Building & Construction 26 06-22-2010 08:26 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.