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Old 02-27-2006, 08:31 AM   #46
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Basement Renovation Question


after framing for the bathroom, I discovered that using wood studs and metal plates to do the basement framing is the best, you kill three birds with one stone: ease of installation, regid structure and economy. I find out screwing into wood, cutting wood... is kind of easier screwing into steels, cutting steels... but the steel plate is much better than wood plates... Also different times you can use small steel sheets to make different angle shapes to attach two woods with screws when nailing is not possible due to tight space.

also framing soffits I would try to use 2" track then 2x2 wood as well. It is because you can build the soffit structure part by part when attaching to the ceiling. I am uncomfortable using the building ladder approach as some variation on height of the object making the ladder useless and all the efforts could be waste or a lot of effort need to spend to fix it.

After thinking about it, I think the metal company won't tell you wood and steel is the best way to build it because they want you to buy more steels, the wood company altogether don't want you to use steel at all so they don't mention that either. but I think after DIY, I conclude wood and steel can be combined and make the work easier.


Last edited by KUIPORNG; 03-01-2006 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 03-03-2006, 11:24 PM   #47
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Use bow snips to cut your round heating pipe. They look like giant scissors.

Use a pair of red snips to cut circles into the trunk lines.

But, I recommend calling a certified contractor to install your heating. He will make sure that your trunk lines and furnace are the right size to add additional runs for your basement. Without this, you could run into some big problems in comfort throughout your home.

Why in the world would you even be considering using an angle grinder? If that's the only tool that you own to cut metal, then you NEED to hire someone with the tools to complete a job safely and proffesionally.

Quick question,

How many injuries have you sustained in your project so far?:p
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:09 AM   #48
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I've been away since my wife just came back from US with the two babies and now my time to work on the project will be much lower than before. Anyhow, to answer ACEInstaller Question, this is my opinion:

- I do not believe anyone need to pay to hire someone to do the heat pipe stuff, to me, it is really the easy part, in terms of size of the pipe, I used 5" pipe (except return air I use 6") which are the same size throughout the house as all other pipes, I don't see any chance of being wrong on this one. All together it takes me approx 3 to 4 hours to setup 4 exhausted vent, two return air holes and pipe, basically the time to spend on heat pipes can be done for sure in one day for the whole basement, whereas for framing, it takes me approx 1 full month. So that is why I see heat pipes is a small job.

- For cutting holes, most of them are square holes, only two circle holes for the return air, for square holes, it mean straight cut, I find the snip cutter is just too difficult to use to make it easy for someone like me, Angle grinder on the other hand, is extremely easy for straight cuts, may be it is dangerous for viewpoints of others, but I think it is not that dangers, those fireworks come out get disappear instantly on the air and didn't catch any damage generally, well, protections can put in surrounding if people worry, but generally this is not really necessary, and you can do it in such a way that the firework go to the opposite direction as your face, so it won't hurt you.

- for the injuries, I got one, by the hammer, on my second finger, as I am a impatient guy. but the injuries is not too bad, if I have not use screws with steels, and use hammer for most of the work, I am sure I will get much more...

- anyhow, I expect to do the two holes drill for the first time this weekend on the brick wall for the vent and dryer, will let you know how it goes... I will use Mike's recommendation to how to do it in earlier post...

Last edited by KUIPORNG; 03-08-2006 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 03-10-2006, 10:45 AM   #49
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I tried the drill hole process a bit last night for a 4" dryer hole, and here is what happen:

I used a 4" hole saw inside to drill on the wood to cut a partial hole as a circle outline for me to work on. I cannot cut through the wood due to the depth of the saw is not enough. I then drill three holes all the way through to outside: one at center and two at the perimeter. I then go outside and take a look. Out of my surprise, these three holes cannot align with a circle, center cannot be center, perimeter cannot be perimeter, this is due to the fact that when I holding the drill it is not level enough, I kind of expect that but not to such degree of misalignment, I then went inside to drill three more holes along the perimeter and trying to hold the drill as level as possible, I am using a cheap $60 bucks hammer drill without level on it. This time I find from outside there are four holes on the perimeter can form quite a circle.

I will drill the circle base on these four holes on Saturday when I can work in daylight.

I just want to say this is not an easy task considering drilling at the top of the ceiling between a wall and and heat trunk and the drill bit has to go across a 110V powerline and telephone line... and you have to raise your hand to hold the drill.... each hole takes you considerable amount of time and effort...

I am trying to think may be it is worth the money to purchase a concrete drill bit and rent the rotary drill from HD....

May be one of you can give me some smart insight to improve this process....
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:20 PM   #50
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KUI****G,

This past week I had to drill two 4" holes and one 2" hole through a block foundation from a garage into a basement. The following is how I did it with good results.

Get yourself a 12" long x 1/8" masonry bit for your hammer drill. Draw an outline for the holes(s) you want on the inside and outside of your wall - you'll need to find a common reference point on the inside and outside to measure off of - like a gas line already through the wall. Drill as many 1/8" holes with the masonry bit around the perimeter of the outline for your holes as you can. Then, drill holes in the wood on the inside with a regular wood bit. After you have all the holes drilled, for the wood inside - use a chisel to complete the outline and remove the wood (it doesn't matter if the hole is larger as it will be above the ceiling and won't be seen). For the outside, use a cold chisel and hammer to complete the outline between the holes you have drilled - you'll eventually be able to remove pieces as you complete the hole.

After you've done your holes and run your vent, fill in around the pipe with fiberglass insulation and mix a small amount of concrete to fill the edges around the vent. Also, like the interior, the vent cover has a larger flange around it and will cover the opening should you're hole not be perfect (which it won't).

Good luck!
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:22 AM   #51
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Thanks for the advice, DesksEtc. I read your post kind of a bit late, after I finished the task. Coincidentally, the process of how I did it is very close to what you suggested, here is what happened:

- It is kind of very important to ensure the inside hole and outside hole coincide with each other, or very close, as, I don't think there can be a perfect fit, but should be very close fit. I tried to ensure that by drawing circle on the inside/outside wall and drill holes either from outside to inside or inside to outside to ensure holes fall in the same perimeter in the inside wall circle/outside wall circle...

- the key is the chisel, here, it plays an unreplaceable role here, I am glad I wasn't be too mean to spend $12 bucks to buy the chisel in HD before I start the job, you know, I almost not doing so thinking as I only used it once, not worth it,...etc, or try to use somthing else to replace it... After doing it, I don't know how it can be replaced....

- also removing the inside wood circle is quite difficult, with hammer, wood chisel, ..etc. for a lengthy time...especially when the hole is larger, with water lines , electric lines, in your ways,... and I don't know if this is true, but I feel after removing the inside wood circle, the chisel work in the outside brick wall becomes much easier, may be it is because of there is no backing for those bricks after the wood is gone, I found the chisel is so difficult to remove bricks otherwise...

- I finished two holes in approx 3 plus hours... it does require a lot of hard work, but satisfaction worths it. I didn't use the fibre glass insulation as suggested by DesksETC. I used a lot of exterior caulking instead, the holes I drilled is not too much off, and have little gap only, so I think this is OK.. I will put fibre glass in the inside hole when at the drywalling stage, all over it...

Anyhow, thanks for the advice, I will move on to finished flaming for 5 to 6 more studs as all difficult to access venting pipes are done, I expect to do the bathroom drain pipes this coming weekend.

Here is my question for that: Does wash machine drain pipe should be 2" pipes, is it the codes? I kind of believe this is the case and intend to do so, but just want to ask here see if anyone has any other opinion... The demo picture in HD, use 1 1/2" pipes instead, I kind of think this is wrong... I suppose even it is not, use a bigger drain pipe does more good, and no harm...

Last edited by KUIPORNG; 03-13-2006 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 03-18-2006, 02:15 PM   #52
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kui****,

I wasn't talking about the size of the runs that you matched to the rest in the house(5" and 6") I was talking about the size of the trunk lines that supply all of these takeoffs. they are designed to supply enough air for what was originally installed in the home. adding more takeoffs to supply the basement with heat might reduce the airflow in all of the other vents upstairs. this can lead to cold rooms in the home.

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Old 03-20-2006, 09:12 AM   #53
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Hi Everyone,

I was on vacation for three days doing drain piples and supply pipes. But first thanks for ACE installer's clarification, but I think in my case, I should be ok because the supply line I extract heat from has supply line to the same area except it is on the ceiling and I have to bring it down... so I should be fine, I just need to cover up the ceiling hole and make it use the ground level hole... anyhow, this should not be much of a problem for new home as the supply lines have you renovated the basement in their mind...

go back to the drain pipes and supply pipes. I find the drain pipe is not much problem and only challenge is TEE into the existing pipe, you need to cut the length out in exact right length, too short, it couldn't get in, too much, you are in big trouble because you will leave gap... I kind of cut too little and then need to trim more, and trim more... and it was done finally anyway.

for supply pipes... if you are the first timer like me, please use pre-soldered pipe parts + soldering, it just increase your confident that there is no leak, although I used some parts which are not pre-soldered and still not leak... it almost a perfect job except I made a big mistake... I installed the shower unit 90 degree off, that means in-take becomes out-take and vice versa, this is all because I didn't read the manual careful enough, instead I looked at the structure, it has a printed word "UP" and I used it as a guidence, and in fact it is dead wrong, I don't know why they print a big word "UP" there to mislead people,... for that, I need to fix the structure by cutting out some pipes and put in couplers. Teeing into existing lines still the big challenge with similar reason of the drain pipes, you need to cut the right length, I found out soldering is in fact less trouble, although I worried most, I didn't encountered a leak due to wrong soldering yet... Another tip: buy the smallest pipe cutter possible, I made the mistake went for the best looking one, and it is not useful to cut existing pipes due to limited space, I end up require to use rotary tool to do that, so rotary tool is also very useful for tight spot... forget about hand saw, it just too difficult... and ware gloves, I got burn with a hot solder in one of my figure because of rushing into trying the first soldering experience. Also, use a metal plate as sheild for things behind the pipes, don't purchase the expensive HD protecting cloth, somthing like $30 plus tax...Also, buy a $3 long mouth lighter, it is money well spent, rather than using matches or regular lighter... Mark all edges with marker on all connection when you dry fitting, then you know how depth you insert the pipes when you doing the actual fitting. Fitting 90 degree or 45 degree albrow is a real challenge, in fact, I advice don't bother dry fitting them, they are so difficult to fit, and pull out, just fit them and solder them... Make sure you spend the money on the Wrench, it is impossible to push/pull those albrow from the pipes bare hand, I did one with the help of my foot, then I purchased the wench and found out it could have been so much easier...

another thing: I discovered threaded join is more problematic than soldered places, I don't have any leak on any soldered joins so far, but I already encountered three threaded joins need repair, one of them is easy fix, by heat and turn, one of them is trouble, I need to cut out and replace. The other one is to be determined.

I will put more tips in my earlier message for DIY people... when I have time...

Last edited by KUIPORNG; 03-21-2006 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:03 PM   #54
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Due to the fact that I need to replace a thread adaptor because of the leak, it now end up have two pipes need to be connected. Say the space between them is 4" how do I connect them?

I was thinking this should be easy by buying two couples in HD and cut a 4" inch pipes and fit the couple at each end, this doesn't work because once you fit in the couple the pipe cannot ge in. I tried that and it is not doable.

HD doesn't sell those couples which can slide through the pipe, if they do, it would work...

I am now thinking may be I should cut a 3" pipe and say the coupling is 1" long, it will fit 0.25" into the pipes at each end and I can fit in the pipe.

But don't know if this is the best way to do it.

Please advice.
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Old 03-23-2006, 07:27 AM   #55
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I went to Home Depot, Canadian Tire and Lowes last night to look for repairing couples, no luck, they don't sell it. Anyhow, I went back home and use what I have and do the work. I fix all leaks (two of them, all because of thread adpator)... I have to cut the pipe shorter than the opening... use the couples(with stop) to bridge them.

Although there is no leak, I do have some concern though, especially the 0.75" pipes... you know, one of the connection is not straight anymore, as the pipes are not completely fit into the couples, it bend a little bit... although the soldering making the connection secure and tight and therefore no leak, I am worry down the road, will the water pressure break the join, as this may be a weak join because pipes didn't suck in a lot...

Can anyone let me know is this a concern I should have, or it is safe to say once the soldering indicate no leak, I shouldn't worry about it anymore... I open the switch since last night and this morning I check it still has no leak...
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:12 PM   #56
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I visited a Plumbing part speciality store this afternoon, only be able to get 1/2" repair slip on coupling. I called a few other speciality store base on Yellow pages, none of them carry this parts. I know US online store sell these parts but they don't ship to Canada...

I was so surprise no one selling these stuff here... Anyone know where to buy them in Toronto. I really want to replace the weak join I mentioned in my above message as after talking with some people, they all suggest I replace it to get a peace of mind....

Thank You
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:23 AM   #57
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After a lot of thinking and experiment, I finally took away those annoying beam which prependicular to the joists and just nailed to the joists in the middle of the ceiling... I didn't see those beams in other houses from other builders... they prevent me from setting up a flat ceiling, setting soffet around them is a pain and looks ugly... Now I feel good about removing them. I think their purpose is to make sure the joists do not shift in position in the begining settlement of the house, and even that there are small wood blocks inside the joists doing that... this probably increase its strength only, other than that, it serves no supporting purpose. I am sure there are people here agree/disagree with my doing this, but I did it and things looks much better now...

I also removed a middle wall which I set up originally for a room, after thinking about it more, there is no need for a room, we rather want open space, thanks to steel setup with screws, it takes approx half an hour to remove the complete middle wall, I am sure it will be a pain doing the same for nailed wood constructions and probably take twice longer...

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Old 03-28-2006, 08:39 AM   #58
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I am new to Electrical as well. These are questions I have in mind:

how many circuits do we normally need for a 1000 square feet basement with one bathroom, one recreation room and one entertainment room, one washer and dryer

Can I use the existing circuit for the washer/dryer to connect to the new washer/dryer... considering that I am going to relocate the machines rather than adding new ones, this won't increase the load...

Thanks for anyone who can answer these questions...

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Old 04-13-2006, 10:31 AM   #59
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I have run out of paper to cover the wall in order to fullfill the code before laying insulation, I bought a can of concrete paint and start painting few small areas before calling for inspection... I find out painting the wall is really a pain when comparing with hanging those other paper directly, it takes 400% longer time to do it, and the paint is more expensive as well, and it is also messy....
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:08 AM   #60
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With a 2 years old and 10 months old... You cannot do much in renovation... anyhow, I manage to get the Plumbing and Framing Inspection to start... I sent a request this morning for coming Friday... I am nervous and excited about this event as I never deal with inspector before,.... wonder how it will go... Well... I will let you know... Would anyone who have experiece with inspector and have some idea to share... please let me know...

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