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Old 09-18-2006, 10:02 PM   #46
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kui****g

Glad to hear that the steel worked out for you, but you are probably a lot better at do it yourself than me.

I think I will stick with the wood for now.

(But you never know, I may try it as I go along).

thanks kui****g

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Old 09-19-2006, 07:46 AM   #47
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I agree with wood studs... but just steel plates... with that you don't need to do toe nailing or toe screwing in your case ....

attached steel plates to top and bottom is as easy if not easier than attach wood plates to top and botoom...


but when you are talking about putting wood studs onto the steel plate vs wood plates, it is comparing night and day... steel plates is at least 2 times easier and more flessible....etc...

as steel plate is a U shape, it clamp the wood stud by nature of its shape.... hope you get it...
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Old 09-19-2006, 07:15 PM   #48
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Kui****g,

Yes, your idea of steel bottom and top plates with wood studs does makes sense. That would make a job easier to a DIYer.

However....you had all that concern about basement moisture.
Yet, you used steel bottom plates in your basement.
I'm surprised, because, Steel plates, though lightly zinc-coated, will rust....

?

(That is why framing in residential home basements is not steel, but Pressure Treated Lumber for bottom plates)
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:07 PM   #49
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In Canada Code, you need a barrier between concrete and bottom plate, or use chemical treated lumber for bottom plate... so for steel plate you need a barrier, HD selling those garbage bag type plastic strips for that... in my case, as I install flooring (egg carboard type plastics plus OSB board) so I don't need those...
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:44 PM   #50
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Kui****g,

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUI****G View Post
HD selling those garbage bag type plastic strips for that...
-You lost me, I have no idea what this is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUI****G View Post
in my case, as I install flooring (egg carboard type plastics plus OSB board) so I don't need those...
- Are you talking about 'Dri-core' flooring?
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:57 AM   #51
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Actually the HD selling those foam type material put under the plate for people want to use regular 2x4 for plate rather than pressure treated lumber... but cheap builder use black garbage bag type plastic sheet, you can even make it yourself with regular garbage bag...

for my case, the idea is same as Dricore but not Dricore due to the fact that it's expensive... I used plastic black sheet thick one (not flat, use for external wall water proofing) selling at HD as underlayment then OSB boards...
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:31 AM   #52
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Quote:
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Actually the HD selling those foam type material put under the plate for people want to use regular 2x4 for plate rather than pressure treated lumber...
You must be referring to sill-foam.

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but cheap builder use black garbage bag type plastic sheet, you can even make it yourself with regular garbage bag......
for my case, the idea is same as Dricore but not Dri-core due to the fact that it's expensive... I used plastic black sheet thick one (not flat, use for external wall water proofing) selling at HD as underlayment then OSB boards...
Wow, I guess you really are a DIYer...

The point with using dri-core is not just the 'vapor-barrier' raised egg-carton plastic underside, but that the area underneath creates an air chamber for moisture to dry out and for insulating purposes. I believe they estimate that the surface of their material is about 7-10 degrees warmer. I have used it on alot of basements as a slightly more expensive option for the homeowner, over poly and 3/4" Floor sheathing.

Question: How did you attach your 1/2" OSB to the concrete floor?
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:34 AM   #53
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I tapcon it down to concret OSB + the thick plastic sheet... yes I stress the sheet is not flat, for the purpose of air circulation...
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:27 PM   #54
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Kui****g:

I finally had a chance to see your pictures.
Amazing, I hope mine will look as good as yours looks.

I noticed that you have some type of black paper on the wall behind the studs.

I remember you mentioning that it is some sort of paper to prevent water?
Can you explain further what that may be.

In my basement there are a couple of areas that I do have water that comes in and the wall is damp, when there is a lot of rain.

Do I need to put this everywhere or just where the water comes from?


Also, you mention that the furnace room has to have a "return vent"
what is that?.

Presently, my furnace is against a wall that has a window right beside it. My whole basement presently is all open and I plan to keep it that way.


What I plan to do is to put a wall around it so that I won't see it in the middle of the room.

(I plan to have pretty much open concept area, and I only want to cover the furnace)

Do I have to consider other things before I frame around it?

I guess I have to frame around it so that if there is any problem I will be able to service the furnace and hot water tank?


I would appreciate any information that you or anyone can give me regarding this.

Hi Atlantic---do you have any advice for me also.



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Old 09-23-2006, 07:55 AM   #55
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I noticed that you have some type of black paper on the wall behind the studs.
I remember you mentioning that it is some sort of paper to prevent water? Can you explain further what that may be.
In my basement there are a couple of areas that I do have water that comes in and the wall is damp, when there is a lot of rain.
Do I need to put this everywhere or just where the water comes from?
Yummy,
That was a vapor barrier that he had put up. The key point here is that it is for moisture vapors...Airborne moisture.
If you are having water entering your basement, even if it's only during rain, you need to have that taken care of. A vapor barrier will not stop water directly penetrating into a basement. Sometimes you may have to bring in a company that specializes in this. The way this done, is to inject concrete epoxy into any areas, like cracks, where the water may be coming through. After this, you cover the freeze wall with a waterproofing compound, like Drylock. If it is only coming through in a few areas, you can try to use hydraulic cement to 'block' it up. Just realize that this is not a quick fix. You will have to do your repairs and monitor the area during rainstorms to see if the water is finding another point to penetrate. You see, when the water pressure builds up, it will seek other weaker points to come through because you blocked up the previous leakage points.

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Also, you mention that the furnace room has to have a "return vent"
what is that?. Presently, my furnace is against a wall that has a window right beside it. My whole basement presently is all open and I plan to keep it that way.
What I plan to do is to put a wall around it so that I won't see it in the middle of the room.
(I plan to have pretty much open concept area, and I only want to cover the furnace)
Do I have to consider other things before I frame around it?
I guess I have to frame around it so that if there is any problem I will be able to service the furnace and hot water tank?
What all that means is that, because you plan on enclosing the furnace, by code, you must have a vent of some kind that is connected into the living space from the area of the enclosed furnace. This can even be a louvered door or a large vent installed in the wall itself. You can place these on a side that is not visible from the rest of the basement area.
Additionally, In my area it is required by code that there be, what is called a ‘fresh-air’ intake. That means that there must be a vent leading to the exterior of your home. I do not know if this is code for your area. But, it might be something for you to look into.
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Old 09-23-2006, 10:11 AM   #56
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Thanks for the info Atlantic.

Your explanations are wonderful. You make them very clear so that a Newbie like me understands them. Thanks.

I now realize that I do have to take care of the water problem.
It is not a big problem. Only 2 places.
What I would like to do, is what you suggested and try to stop it from the inside by some of your suggestions as opposed to doing it from the outside.

What I plan on putting on the floor would be ceramic tiles so that if I did have any water coming in then it would not damage any flooring.
What is your opinion on this?

My home use to be a 2 bedroom bungalow, which 3 years ago, I gutted it out and added a second floor.

I did not dig foundations. So the basement still have the original blocks and cement floor and joists. The original home was built in l942.
I had lived in the home for 10 years before doing the renovation/addition, and never once had any water in the basement.
Yes, the basement was damp but never any water.

After the new addition/ renovation that is when the water started to come in.
But only in 2 small places during rain.

I really would love it if I could get away with something other than doing an extensive and expensive job.

Regarding the furnace area. What I plan to do is just to build some walls so that I don't see it. I will have a door opening, so that I can get into it for servicing, etc. (The water tank is there also).

Would that pose a problem just puting some walls around it.
The contractor ran the heating vents, which are in the ceiling running along the joists, and there are 3 vents in the area for heat to come out of in the ceiling.

Thanks for your wonderful info. and your guidance.


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Old 09-24-2006, 08:36 PM   #57
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What I plan on putting on the floor would be ceramic tiles so that if I did have any water coming in then it would not damage any flooring.
What is your opinion on this?
Sounds like a good plan.

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....the basement was damp but never any water.
After the new addition/ renovation that is when the water started to come in. But only in 2 small places during rain.
I really would love it if I could get away with something other than doing an extensive and expensive job.
I have used hydraulic cement on many occasions as the first step 'effort' to stop minor incoming water in basement freeze walls. Every time, it has worked and stopped the water. This hydraulic cement can be purchased in a small container at H.D.
Mix it with water to a paste-like consistency. This can be mixed manually with anything on hand as a stirrer. Be careful, it dries FAST. So get the job done quickly. Squash it right into the areas. I would suggest you use the best tools you have to do this....your hands. Put some heavy duty gloves on that are resistant to cement compounds.

Quote:
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Regarding the furnace area. What I plan to do is just to build some walls so that I don't see it. I will have a door opening, so that I can get into it for servicing, etc. (The water tank is there also).
Would that pose a problem just putting some walls around it.
No, building the walls around your furnace or heating unit would be no problem. (You would want to leave some room around the heating unit for service and repair access, as well as room to change out the water heater and it's connections)

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The contractor ran the heating vents, which are in the ceiling running along the joists, and there are 3 vents in the area for heat to come out of in the ceiling.
Y.M., the ventilation we are talking about has nothing to do with the system's attached intake vents, themselves, that service your home.

What you need is a separate vent, or vents, or a louvered door…the key is to have air access. When you build the walls, you are essentially enclosing the system. The system, then, has also been shut-off from the home’s existing air.
You see, some furnaces pull the air they need directly from the house while others have a direct ‘fresh-air’ vent to the outside of your home. Either way, they need access to air.

OK, this is where it gets technical:
By local code (Here in the U.S.) , there is supposed to be at least 50 cubic feet of air space around the heating unit (as ventilation) - for each 1000 BTU’s of fuel input (for the average gravity air fed system)
In such a basic-average home system, an air access vent opening should be sized at 1 sq. inch per 1,000 BTUs of fuel input.
There should be at least two openings to unobstructed air access.
One in the upper 12 inches of the room (Connecting the furnace ‘room’ to the rest of your finished basement) and one located 12 inches off the floor (Connecting the same furnace ‘room’ to the rest of your finished basement) Often the best way to accommodate all of these technical requirements is to do this:

1.) Install two (2) 16”x16” vents in the newly constructed walls surrounding your furnace. One vent placed at floor height and one place at approximate ceiling height.

OR

2.) Just install a louvered access door and your covered completely.
(This is what is normally done)
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:34 PM   #58
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Atlantic:

When the time comes I will take your suggestion and install 2 vents as you have suggested, and a door.

I also will check our code, (I live in Canada) and see what would be required.

I attended a seminar at Rona Building Centre today on framing and drywalling a basement and they have explained about hydraulic cement.
I may go that route when the time comes.

Thanks a bunch,
you're great!!!!!


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Old 09-24-2006, 10:51 PM   #59
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Today I attended a workshop on framing and he suggested that I put a vapor barrier against the cement blocks, then the insullation and then another vapor barrier, and then the drywall.

Do I need to do this?
Two vapor barriers-one on either side of the insullation?



Thanks again
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:54 AM   #60
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When the time comes I will take your suggestion and install 2 vents as you have suggested, and a door.
yummy
Y.M., You do not have to do both. It's is one or the other. What I meant was that it is easiest and most convenient to just install a lovered door. Installing a louvered access door covers the requirements.

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