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Old 01-10-2012, 08:34 AM   #1
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


I'm looking to build a wall to wall closet in an existing drywalled space. The length of the wall is 82" and I am planning on adding a double door with 28" doors.

Problems:
1. Ceiling joists run parallel to the wall and the wall will have to be between two existing joists. No choice on placement here.

2. Ceiling is not flat. On the left side the height is a normal 8ft ceiling. On the right side, (against an exterior wall) the height is 84". From the right side the ceiling slopes upward for 4.5 feet until it is 8ft high and then curves and runs flat and level to the left (interior) wall.

3. No attic access to ceiling. (Above existing drywall is vapour barrier and insulation)

My proposed solution:
Since there is no ceiling joist, but I have a solid wall on either side to fasten studs to - I planned to forego the usual "king stud" door framing and have the door header run the entire length of the wall and frame the door opening and rest of the wall below it.

I would then install this portion of the wall first. Then built up the portions above the door header after installation. I would fasten the top plate to the ceiling with construction adhesive and drywall toggles. The cripples will then be cut to length on an angle for each location.

Problem with this approach:
The sloped ceiling and wall height on the exterior (right) side will not allow for a substantial header to run the entire width. With only 84" height available at the right wall, I only have a couple of inches above the space required for the frame.

Will a single 2x4 be sufficient to serve as a door header for this (approx 60" opening) closet door?

Is there a better approach?

Photos:
http://206.191.60.66/temp/horz.jpg
http://206.191.60.66/temp/vert.jpg
http://206.191.60.66/temp/overview.jpg


Last edited by Jebross; 01-11-2012 at 09:15 AM. Reason: added photos
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:15 AM   #2
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


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Originally Posted by Jebross View Post
I'm looking to build a wall to wall closet in an existing drywalled space.
Ceiling joists run parallel to the wall and the wall will have to be between two existing joists.
Climb up into the attic and set some blocking between the joists.
Set cap plate, set sole plate, set the (5 or 6?) studs one at a time.

hth

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Old 01-10-2012, 09:32 AM   #3
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


No attic access from above. Would have to open everything from below - above the drywall is vapour barrier and insulation.

Initial post modified with this info.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:50 AM   #4
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


Much easyer to picture what you have if we had a picture not just a decription.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #5
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


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Originally Posted by Jebross View Post
No attic access from above. Would have to open everything from below
c'est la vie.

Or... make the closet up to 7" deeper/shallowe than planned.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:23 AM   #6
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


I think I understand what you are doing. Because the total wall length is so short (84") it will probably work fine. Maker sure the end studs are secured well, and tie into them securely too. A double plate would help stiffen things if you have room for it.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:18 PM   #7
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


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Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
c'est la vie. Or... make the closet up to 7" deeper/shallowe than planned.
I'm afraid that won't work - shallower: closet is too shallow... deeper: Window in the way

Isn't that nice!

sixeightten: Thank you. The header/plate would be well nailed into the end studs which will definitely be extremely well screwed to the existing wall stud. hmmm... If I used a slightly shorter door (maybe 78") then I would have room for the double plate you mention.

joecaption: Yes a photo would help, I'll post one tonight.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:05 PM   #8
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


If there is firm anchoring on both sides and the double doors are hinged which puts no load on the top Run a double top plate from one side to the other, below this on the level a flat 2x4 the rough opening width. Then cripple studs from the flat plate above the door to the double top plate.

Basically frame it like any interior wall with your double top plate at an angle. If you feel the double 2x4 top is not stiff enough you could go double 2X6 or even 2X8 and offset it to the inside of the closet.

This should give you an idea, although for stiffness in your case use a double top plate.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=interi...t:429,r:14,s:0
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:12 PM   #9
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


If you are concerned with the ceiling drywall seperating from the new wall drywall I would cut some holes in the ceiling where your wall is going. No bigger then your top plate. Before you put wall in place slip some 1/2" or 3/4" ply pieces up in the ceiling through the slot and screw the ceiling drywall into them. Then screw up into those from your wall when you put it in place. put them every couple of feet.

Be carefull not to cut the ceiling plastic when you cut the drywall, or fix it if you do cut it.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:47 PM   #10
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


Quote:
Originally Posted by mae-ling View Post
...cut some holes in the ceiling where your wall is going.
...slip some 1/2" or 3/4" ply pieces up in the ceiling...
screw the ceiling drywall into them.
Then screw up into those from your wall when you put it in place.
This is a great idea.
---
Best I had in mind was slots in the ceiling at each hinge location for 2X's.
Toe into the joists and then some GWB patching.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:21 AM   #11
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


Photos added to initial post
http://206.191.60.66/temp/horz.jpg
http://206.191.60.66/temp/vert.jpg
http://206.191.60.66/temp/overview.jpg
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:34 AM   #12
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Adding wall with door opening - sloped ceiling and no joist for top plate


Quote:
Originally Posted by mae-ling View Post
... Before you put wall in place slip some 1/2" or 3/4" ply pieces up in the ceiling through the slot and screw the ceiling drywall into them. Then screw up into those from your wall when you put it in place. put them every couple of feet.
Thank you for the great idea - it basically creates "super toggle bolts" but with the pressure spread out over a larger area - I like it!

But I am confused by this...
Quote:
If there is firm anchoring on both sides and the double doors are hinged which puts no load on the top Run a double top plate from one side to the other, below this on the level a flat 2x4 the rough opening width. Then cripple studs from the flat plate above the door to the double top plate.
Wouldn't having a double 2x4 header running end to end on the level, firmly fastened to stable, well attached end studs be better than relying on a double top plate that is only fastened to drywall?

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