Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Carpentry

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-11-2010, 10:08 AM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 413
Share |
Default

Walnut countertops


Keith,
I totally understand the ripping and re-glueing isn't 100% necessary. My reasons are two fold. First, I don't want some boards 8" and some 9" and then a small stip. I prefer everything to be the same width. I feel it will look more uniform. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's where the second reason comes into play. There are some bad spots in a few of these boards and some have a slight cupping to them. If I rip them down, I think I can waste less wood by avoiding the bad spots and at the same time, the cupping of a 2" strip would be that much less than the cupping of an 8"+ board, so less planeing.

As for the hand planed look, that's partially why I'm here. I am new to this aspect, but I know I've seen it and liked it. I bought the #6 plane for the simple reason, that I recently finished a bar top that I made from pine, ripped to 3/4" widths, reclaimed from the original treads when I re-placed my stair treads recently. I needed a good way to even out the joints when I glued it up as it was built in place and it did the job. I am happy with the look on that, but these walnut tops will be done a bit differently, so I do appreciate that bit of info. I will definately research that a bit more, and you've given me a lot to go on. Thanks. I will basically have to find some pictures - or something - to better understand the radius part, etc. I think google will be my friend!!

As for the plywood base that was mentioned earlier, is it bad to glue the walnut top to that and secure without movement or better to screw it "loose" like you suggest?

Thanks for the feedback.

Master Brian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 11:33 AM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 413
Default

Walnut countertops


My bad, I guess the one I have is a Stanley #4, but it is new, not old. Not sure why I was thinking it was a #6, maybe I looked at a 6 when I bought this one. Shows how much I've used it.....
Master Brian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 07:50 PM   #18
Stair builder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 252
Default

Walnut countertops


A #4 is a much more appropriate sized plane to do what you want as far as the finished look is concerned. It will not do a very good job as a substitute for a planer.

When you take wide boards and rip them into small widths a lot of tension is released from the board, so expect them to be pretty squirrelly. Wouldn't be my first choice.

Do not glue wide boards to a stable substrate, ever. Wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity. Plywood expands about 1/10th as much as solid wood. Your counter tops will almost certainly split.
Keith Mathewson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2010, 05:03 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 413
Default

Walnut countertops


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
A #4 is a much more appropriate sized plane to do what you want as far as the finished look is concerned. It will not do a very good job as a substitute for a planer.
Again, I'll be "cheating" using an electric 12" bench top planer to get the boards close to final thickness and finish. The hand plane is just to finish the look, if I'm lucky!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
When you take wide boards and rip them into small widths a lot of tension is released from the board, so expect them to be pretty squirrelly. Wouldn't be my first choice.
Not saying you are wrong and this has been a fear of mine, but I'm hoping that won't really happen. I'll likely rip a few test boards and see what happens. I just think it'll look much more professional with the small sizes I have, if everything is uniform in width. Again, maybe I'm wrong...I just don't see it looking good on a 24" wide and 24" deep countertop to have an 8" stip, a 12" stip and a 4" strip. [/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
Do not glue wide boards to a stable substrate, ever. Wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity. Plywood expands about 1/10th as much as solid wood. Your counter tops will almost certainly split.
Didn't know if 2" widths would be too wide, but I'll avoid it. I thought they did it on wood planks for flooring, so I thought it might be ok. Anything wider, I knew it wouldn't be wise...

I've included a drawing. Is that what you meant by a strong radius on the hand plane blade?

THanks again for your replies.
Attached Images
 
Master Brian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2010, 07:29 PM   #20
Stair builder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 252
Default

Walnut countertops


Brian,

The pic is correct. The smaller the radius, the more pronounced the effect.

To you 2" wide boards say professional, to me they say mass produced. Last year I made maple counter tops for my house. I made them in different widths just to avoid that look. But if it is the look you like then it is what you should do.

If it were me I would not worry so much about the width differences and cut out any defects, then glue the board back together. If you cut them all into 2" widths, keep them in order and then glue them back together they will end up looking like the original board anyway. Attached are a couple of pics of a walnut board that was ripped into 1/8" strips and then re-glued around a frame. You will notice that the grain appears to go around the corner.
Attached Thumbnails
Walnut countertops-dscf1027.jpg   Walnut countertops-dscf1034.jpg  
Keith Mathewson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2010, 11:12 PM   #21
Cabinet maker
 
Augie Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 89
Default

Walnut countertops


We build walnut tops from time to time.

Walnut countertops-dsc_0097.jpg

Walnut countertops-dsc_0100.jpg

If I were to put a top in my house with the wood you have, I would rip it to 2 inches and turn it on edge to glue it. That is much more stable than the 2 inch strips glued face up like you are describing.

If you don't have enough dry wood available, I wood do what I needed to get more. That is just me. I'm not saying it is the only way to fly.

What ever method you end up with, glue up the top in about 3 sections at full length but narrow widths. Then plane those to uniform thickness in your 12' planer. Dress the edges and glue them together. You will find that much easier than dressing the entire top by hand.

Wood tops in a kitchen will last as long as they are respected and treated well. Have fun and live your dream
Augie Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2010, 08:10 AM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 413
Default

Walnut countertops


Both of those are amazing looking tops. I am suprised at how well the 1/8" strips blend back together on that curved top and don't even want to think about the amount of work it took.

Augie Dog, is that countertop edge or face grain? I have thought about both, just couldn't/can't really make up my mind. I can visual in my head, but maybe I need to go out and look again and see if I can't find both in a show room to look at. Plenty of pics online, but hard to get a firm grasp from a picture. I also agree, it would be much more stable with the edge grain up, and I could get more lumber that should work from a lumberyard. What I'm trying to decide is if the edge grain would look too butcher blocky.... Don't get me wrong, I do love that look as well, just not sure if it's right for my look, but you do have me thinking. Part of my reasoning is that I have a 3"+ thick maple butcher block slab, that is edge grain that will be used as my work stations and I'm thinking the face grain on the walnut might give be a nice contrast.

I am curious what type of finish is on the counter top in the post above. Any suggestions there? I've been thinking of using Danish Oil, even though I know it isn't safe for food prep, which is why I'm leaning that way....I don't want people cutting and prepping on these tops!!
Master Brian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2010, 08:50 AM   #23
Cabinet maker
 
Augie Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 89
Default

Walnut countertops


It is 8/4 ripped to 1 3/4" and turned on edge. Resulting in 1 3/4" x 1 3/4" pieces.

The finish is just food grade mineral oil.

I did a 1 3/4" walnut top for a couple where she wanted the table top look (wider boards) because half of the top was eating area at an island. He wanted the butcher block look (edge grain) because he wanted to carve meet right next to the sink. We ended up doing both in the same top. Even routed in a blood moat for his rare roasts that drained to the sink. That looked fine too.

I wouldn't fret over it too much, after all you are the client. And at 2" wide you won't get into much trouble. If you had 8/4 material there would be no concerns over here.
Augie Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2010, 08:55 AM   #24
Stair builder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 252
Default

Walnut countertops


If I were to put a top in my house with the wood you have, I would rip it to 2 inches and turn it on edge to glue it. That is much more stable than the 2 inch strips glued face up like you are describing.

Augie,

Nice looking work.

I'm curious as to why you think rotating the stock 90 would make it more stable. Are you saying to rotate stock to get as much quartersawn grain as possible? I can see that, but rotating them all I don't see an advantage.
Keith Mathewson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2010, 09:12 AM   #25
Cabinet maker
 
Augie Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 89
Default

Walnut countertops


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
Augie,

Nice looking work.

I'm curious as to why you think rotating the stock 90 would make it more stable. Are you saying to rotate stock to get as much quartersawn grain as possible? I can see that, but rotating them all I don't see an advantage.
When you place boards on the flat (wider than thick) with the grain orientated flat, as his are, they are prone to cupping. Especially if they are not completely dry, as his may be.

Turn them on edge and the grain is more vertical, the boards are way less prone to problematic movement.
Augie Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2010, 09:36 AM   #26
Stair builder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 252
Default

Walnut countertops


Well Brian now you have a couple of different view points. Even more to think about.

Here are a couple of bars I made using flatsawn material, both net out at around 7/8". One is 24' the other 18'. Different bars, different parts of town. The most recent one is about 5 years old. Neither have had any problems.
Attached Thumbnails
Walnut countertops-dscf0219.jpg   Walnut countertops-dscn0019.jpg  

Last edited by Keith Mathewson; 11-13-2010 at 09:38 AM.
Keith Mathewson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Keith Mathewson For This Useful Post:
Augie Dog (11-13-2010)
Old 11-13-2010, 10:38 AM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 413
Default

Walnut countertops


The dryness of the wood seems to be the main concern. I'll see if I can find a way to test, but I don't have a guage and not sure it's cost effective to buy one for this single project. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll look into it. With that said, I have been told about this wood for about a year, even though it was only recently that I finally got my hands on it. Story a year ago, was that it was sitting in a garage/shed for over a year, maybe two or more, kept dry and stacked with spacers between the boards so that air could circulate on all sides. There is minimal twisting, minimal cupping and the boards do have dry/seasoned look to them.

I was hoping the boards would be 2" thick as I was told he had plenty of them and I could have those, what we ended up with was what's in the pictures above. My neighbor is the one that was given the boards and he wanted the 2"+ thick ones to build a mantel with and some other misc projects, so I took what I could. It is a bit disappointing, but even if I had gotten the two inch thick ones, I wouldn't have had enough of those.

It is interesting to read the different view points, as you both definately have more experience than I in working with this stuff. I have been searching the web for pictures and since I am left with 1" thick, probably closer to 3/4" once planed, lumber, for now I'm leaning towards face grain and somewhat wider planks. I'm going to try to lay the lumber out and see what I can make work. I am starting to think maybe it would look better with wide planks. Thinking 4" or maybe 6", possibly up to 8", but doubt I go that wide. At 4 or 6 inch, I could glue a couple of pieces together and plane them in my 12" planer then only have a couple of glue joints to worry about later.

One other question that is coming to mind, is it best to run every glue edge on the jointer if they are cut straight on a table saw with a quality blade? It's been a few years since I've done much of this type of work and honestly can't recall. I have access to one through my father-in-law, or I could use my router table, just curious if I accomplish anything.

Kieth, those bar tops are great, I really like the bowtie detail! Do you stagger the end grain or not worry about it? I was taught in shop class in H.S. that you need to alternate the pieces so one goes up and the other goes down.

Thanks yet again!!

Master Brian is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stonemark & Silestone Countertops......??? DepotDweller Remodeling 9 06-25-2009 11:44 AM
Granite kitchen countertops replacing tile/mortar countertops - what to remove? vsheetz Building & Construction 17 06-10-2009 07:32 PM
Need advice/tips on tearing out old laminate countertops TumsGum Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 6 03-07-2009 09:52 AM
Opinion on countertops please... skipjack Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 11 01-28-2009 11:20 PM
What's best for sealing painted countertops? bscott1238 Painting 2 12-19-2008 06:43 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.