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Old 11-28-2009, 08:50 PM   #16
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


Hi, guys. Thanks for your helpful comments.

I believe plywood was put there as backing for the cabinets. I am going to have to double check that, especially since it may be the solution. (I did wonder about the countertop.)

Could you please explain what you mean by "recessing a 2 x 6 around the walls as a nailer"?? Do you mean nailing pieces of 2 x 6 between all the studs at the heights you would need for attaching cabinets to them? (I understand the reasoning - not knowing if the studs are going to be where you need them.)

Hope to hear more from you!

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Old 11-28-2009, 09:11 PM   #17
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


When I posted the message above, I had not seen oh'mike's response recommending planing the edge of the cabinets.

I will not be installing the cabinets, but I live in a very rural area, and I've found through experience that I need to understand what's going on.

If the cabinets are planed, that takes me back to asking if this would not require repainting the cabinets, which are white. Some cabinets don't have cabinets next to them (next to appliances or at the end). With any of the cabinets, it seems if the side edge of the face is planed, it would be noticeable at the front corner.

What about the countertop? It's laminate, already cut. Should a cabinet installer be able to trim that too?

Hope you will respond.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:48 PM   #18
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


Annie: we need some x-ray vision here. IF the plywood, which may or may not, be there, is there and IF it was properly inset into the studs IE, a notch was cut in tem to keep plywood flush with the face of the studs,then the plywood is NOT the problem. The framers were the problem.
To the 2 x 6 question; YES one would 2x6 blocking and install between the studs.
YES since cabinets are painted it is very likely that you will not only see the planing but it is possible to have the paint chip :{

IMHO, Mr wall would meet Mr relocator. Paulie had a good plan, not only to move it as I agree BUT move it a couple of inches. You can easily find out what stock sizes of fillers are available, and just go the 138 plus that amount.
I am thinkin what happened is when it was framed only one side of sheetrock was added instead of 2. That 1/2" is exactly one sheet of rock :}:}
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:18 PM   #19
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie5 View Post
When I posted the message above, I had not seen oh'mike's response recommending planing the edge of the cabinets.

I will not be installing the cabinets, but I live in a very rural area, and I've found through experience that I need to understand what's going on.

If the cabinets are planed, that takes me back to asking if this would not require repainting the cabinets, which are white. Some cabinets don't have cabinets next to them (next to appliances or at the end). With any of the cabinets, it seems if the side edge of the face is planed, it would be noticeable at the front corner.

What about the countertop? It's laminate, already cut. Should a cabinet installer be able to trim that too?

Hope you will respond.
Unless I read your post wrong there will be NO PLANING of the end cabinets or the cabinets next to the appliances.

You would plan both ends (edges) of the sink base...
both ends (edges) of the 15" next to it...
both ends (edges) of the 18" on the other side of the sink base....
and one edge each of the corner bases......... the edges that butt to the 15" and the 18".

You will plane only the edges of those few cabinets on the exterior wall.

And the only thing you would paint white would be those skinny planed edges...... they will hardly show at the front joints at all.

The countertop should NOT have already been fabricated. The measuring for that is done only after the cabinets are installed.
And this is the reason for doing it that way...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie5 View Post
At two feet and six feet away from that wall, the measurement across is 137 5/8.

At 6'9" from the exterior wall (corner of eating counter stud wall), it's
137 3/4+.
Your walls are NOT square, therefore the cabinets may not end up square either...... thus making a pre-built countertop misaligned.
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Last edited by Willie T; 11-28-2009 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:40 PM   #20
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


If they measured & built the counter top then they are responsible for rebuilding it
If you provided the measurements then its on you to have it rebuilt
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:16 PM   #21
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Okay, I understand the planing and thank you for being specific - I needed that - thinking in too many directions at the same time, I guess.

The cabinets and counter were purchased before the kitchen was finished, so the counter was cut based on the plan and I don't think I could fault them. Where would I look to have it recut?

As for the plywood, I think it was put over (not between) the studs, but I can't say any more on that till I check for sure.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:39 AM   #22
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


WILLIE-T What his said is the way to go. With accurate planing the face of the cabinets will not be affected.

I've never heard of making the counter top before the cabinets were installed. Your installer may have to spend a great deal of time trying to scribe the tops to fit.

If the room is to much out of square his attempts may be a failure. Perhaps a template could be made
and used to scribe the back splash of the counter top.

I suggest you tell the installer ahead of time that the tops are cut wrong. It will give him time to try to figure a way to salvage the tops.

I also suggest you offer to pay his hourly rate for the attempt to correct this.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, The tops may be a loss.--MIKE--
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:55 AM   #23
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


Let me clarify my post. I was talking about why plywood is attached to the walls in a kitchen, the poster (skymaster) was wondering why would the framers put plywood there. I explained why and that we've done it before and I should have included that we've fastened it to the studs (not notched) then gone over with drywall so as to always have something to screw into. BUT that is calculated into the cabinet plans BEFORE their bought. Sometimes a 2 x 6 is notched in as a nailer and it can be faster and easier if you don't have the drywall down and don't intend to take it down. I think whats happened here is the cart has been put before the horse so to speak. Be that as it may, it's Sunday Nov. 29, 2009 and you've got cabinet dimensions that are bigger then your walls allow. So I agree with Willie that the best course of action is to plane (very carefully) down the cabinets to give you the space your walls allow.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie5 View Post
.......Used 4' level too - bubble inside lines.............
Just for your own future level use........ Having the bubble inside the lines is merely a rough "starting point". You should have EXACTLY the same distance from the edge of the bubble to the lines ON BOTH SIDES of the bubble.

THEN...... turn the level around, and read the same bubble from the other side. There should be no change. If there is, your level is defective.

Although a defective level can be used with good accuracy by someone familiar with using such a tool, I would suggest that a less experienced person just go out and buy a new level.

Here's how to check a level for accuracy:
Place the level on a smooth wall.
Line the bubble up perfectly.
Draw a long pencil line on the wall along one edge of the level.
Flip the level, end for end.
Line up the level with the line you drew.
There should be no change in the perfection of the bubble position.

This sort of test should be done in both vertical and horizontal positions, and from both sides (not "edges"... SIDES) of the level. Turn that level over and use the SIDE that was just laid against the wall.

Every bubble on the level should always line up perfectly with the pencil line when flipped or turned to its opposite or reversed position.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:07 PM   #25
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


Thank you for your patience in providing the information about using a level! I was noting the exact location of the bubble and was told I was being too fussy. On all walls except one, it was at the outer edge of the marked section, away from the wall toward the inside of the room (at both heights on 4' level). I only checked vertically.

I just checked the level itself in this apartment per your instructions. (About 10" from each end, there are two liquid/bubble holders, and in the middle, two more liquid/bubble holders. I'm assuming the end ones are for checking vertical level and the middle ones for checking horizontal level.) Referring only to the bottom one both horizontally and vertically, they are the same. However, the top one in both directions is always way different from the bottom one, no matter what direction.

So if ALL these bubbles should line up, they certainly don't.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:11 PM   #26
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


I do understand why plywood between the joists would be helpful in installing cabinets. Today, I tried to check whether plywood was put between or on top of wall joists, but there seems to be a board (2x4?) on the 4” side across the top. By feel, there seemed to be something fitting flush with a couple wall joists, but extending out in front of a third one. I made an attempt to check from the attic, but my knees aren’t cooperating enough to give me safe access, so I will have to have someone else check.

You are very right that the cart was put before the horse! It seems to be an ongoing problem - that is, people wanting to jump to the finishing before being certain we're ready to do that.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:22 PM   #27
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Wall too short for cabinets - more info, more questions


I got the countertop the same time as the cabinets -- obviously not a good idea, but the retailer did not even mention waiting, just asked if I wanted countertop too (and this shop has been around a long time and is well respected as far as I know). Guess this was another cart-before-the-horse moment. But, IMO, it's better to know now that the countertop could be a loss rather than being unpleasantly surprised. I appreciate your suggestions.

Could you please tell me how much out of square is too out of square?
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:57 PM   #28
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One ray of hope on the counter tops----
If the top has not been pre-assembled at the shop(mitered corners I mean) It would be possible to have the sink sections miter recut 1/2 inch shorter---Let's hope!--MIKE--
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:45 PM   #29
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Annie-I like your spirit---
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:56 PM   #30
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It's nice to have some encouraging words!

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