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Old 02-28-2012, 06:13 PM   #1
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


I'm planning on setting up shop in the bedroom where I want to install built-ins. I have stripped the room and there is nothing but concrete and a window now.

My plan was to just use a plywood sheet on 4 saw horses as a table and use that to break down full plywood sheets, using 2 x 4 lumber long ways on the table to cut the 3/4 between.

Is 1/2 inch pine plywood good enough for a table or will that not be stiff enough?

Also, I looked at Home Depot today and am wondering what I should use for the backing of my paint grade cabinets and upper bookcases I will be constructing. I want to use a 1/4" tight grain wood on the back. Would this 'sandeply' be good enough for the back? What do you guys use for the back?
http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Comp...&storeId=10051

When you guys are making base cabinets for a bedroom, do you use a 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 ladder as the base for the cabinets or do you use 3/4" ply fins?

What size biscuits do I need for joining 3/4 wood? #20?

I am going to do flush mount doors. Do you guys usually just order out your doors and perhaps order them the same exact size as your perfectly square door openings and then plane down the edges of the door to fit once you get them? If so, where do you order your doors from? Where do you order your soft-close euro hinges from?

How do you secure cabinets to a concrete sub-floor? Or is it just as easy as, shim them up and level both ways, then just screw them in to the adjacent wall studs? Do you leave a little overhang on the sides compared to the back so that it is a slight 'H' when you nail it to the wall? I saw museum rails as one way to hang bookcases, but I think i'd rather just screw it in and fill the holes, assuming i can just go through the 1/4" back to the wall studs?

When you install your face frame on a side that butts to the wall, do you let it overhang slightly toward the wall (rather then sitting it flush with the outside edge of the 3/4" ply) so you can scribe it to the wall, maybe making the width of it 1/8" wider to leave room to scribe? Or if its 1/8" or less, can I just caulk it?

When you install your

Ok, that's it for now. More to come i'm sure. Thanks in advance.

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Old 02-28-2012, 09:54 PM   #2
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


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Originally Posted by noone View Post
I'm planning on setting up shop in the bedroom where I want to install built-ins. I have stripped the room and there is nothing but concrete and a window now.

My plan was to just use a plywood sheet on 4 saw horses as a table and use that to break down full plywood sheets, using 2 x 4 lumber long ways on the table to cut the 3/4 between.

Is 1/2 inch pine plywood good enough for a table or will that not be stiff enough?

Also, I looked at Home Depot today and am wondering what I should use for the backing of my paint grade cabinets and upper bookcases I will be constructing. I want to use a 1/4" tight grain wood on the back. Would this 'sandeply' be good enough for the back? What do you guys use for the back?
http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Comp...&storeId=10051

When you guys are making base cabinets for a bedroom, do you use a 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 ladder as the base for the cabinets or do you use 3/4" ply fins?

What size biscuits do I need for joining 3/4 wood? #20?

I am going to do flush mount doors. Do you guys usually just order out your doors and perhaps order them the same exact size as your perfectly square door openings and then plane down the edges of the door to fit once you get them? If so, where do you order your doors from? Where do you order your soft-close euro hinges from?

How do you secure cabinets to a concrete sub-floor? Or is it just as easy as, shim them up and level both ways, then just screw them in to the adjacent wall studs? Do you leave a little overhang on the sides compared to the back so that it is a slight 'H' when you nail it to the wall? I saw museum rails as one way to hang bookcases, but I think i'd rather just screw it in and fill the holes, assuming i can just go through the 1/4" back to the wall studs?

When you install your face frame on a side that butts to the wall, do you let it overhang slightly toward the wall (rather then sitting it flush with the outside edge of the 3/4" ply) so you can scribe it to the wall, maybe making the width of it 1/8" wider to leave room to scribe? Or if its 1/8" or less, can I just caulk it?

When you install your

Ok, that's it for now. More to come i'm sure. Thanks in advance.
Yikes--Lots of questions--
!/2" ply is to flimsy---use 3/4" or screw the 1/2 to a couple of 2x4s-

Backing---forget 'sand ply;---It wont stay flat--pure junk--use cabinet ply-

Briskets--10 or 20 are fine---not really needed at all--modern wood glue is stronger than the wood it joins,so a edge glued joint will work.

I make my own doors--but it's a lot of work--and no better than factory made doors---someone will have a door company for you--

Size? I make mine 3/16 narrower than the opening--then trim

No 2x4s or any other construction lumber---plywood (1/2" for box work)

3/4" for book case sides--

I would apply the face frames to the boxes after the boxes are mounted to the wall if the book case is 'trapped' between two walls.

Need a sketch to get more detailed--Mike---

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Old 02-28-2012, 11:19 PM   #3
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


What are your thoughts on using that Kreg tools pocket hole joinery jig? I watched a few of their videos and really liked not having to glue every single edge of plywood together. Are these pocket hole screws strong? Do you join with biscuits? The advantage i see is that buscuit joinery = less holes to cover. Because even on the inside of a cabinet there will be visible holes on the inside where it pulls together an outside exposed piece of ply.

Maybe mix it up? Biscuits on the carcass, and use pocket holes on the face frame and cabinet fins? So many options, I just want the strongest, easiest and efficient method!
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:43 PM   #4
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


The Kreg screws will work far better then biskets and having to clamp it.
I would still use glue.
It will pull the joist together so there's 0 gaps.
They also sell tapered plugs to fill the holes.
I dado in the sides of the boxes where the shelves are going to be installed.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:04 AM   #5
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Sounds like I need to return the Dewalt plate joiner and biscuits I just bought.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:45 AM   #6
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


I've got a plate joiner--they do have a place in the shop---good for butt joints on end grain --

Pocket hole jig is faster than bisketing the face frames together---
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:58 AM   #7
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


You may want to pick up a cabinet making book at the Depot.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:18 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 12penny View Post
You may want to pick up a cabinet making book at the Depot.
Already did.

Bought:
Trim Carpentry & Built-Ins (Taunton's Build Like a Pro) [Paperback]

Clayton DeKorne (Author)

I thought it was fairly thorough. It emphasized biscuit joinery, but I'm leaning towards the Kreg Jig pocket hole system now. It just seems easier for a beginner.

I have also been watching a lot of videos and reading a LOT of information for the past month or so. I actually feel like I know what I am doing at this point. Very soon I will be able to test my knowledge.....

I will post up a few pics of a sketch and some idea pics.

Last edited by noone; 02-29-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


pics would be good. Give us a sense of what you're dealing with. We like build pics too.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:38 AM   #10
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


Ok, here is a description of what I want to do, with pics. First two pics is the subject area, followed by example pics.

We are looking at putting two custom base cabinets in that flank either side of this window shown in the pic. The left side would be a 44" wide cabinet, the right side a 45" wide cabinet. The left side measures 46" from the left wall to the left edge of the shutter frame, and the right side measures 47" from the right shutter edge to the right wall. This will leave about 2" of clearance so that the shutters can open (wall to left edge of window frame is 47, wall to right edge of window frame is 46). The actual cabinet will be smaller, since the counter top protrusion would need to be considered, dependent upon which molding I use for the counter top edging. On top of the cabinet, there will be bookshelves that extend to the 8ft. ceiling, trimmed with crown that wraps around the built-ins. I will put a baseboard profile upside down at the top and then crown to the ceiling on top of that. The base cabinets will have flush doors. The depth of the bookshelves would need to be 15" of usable space. The depth of the base cabinet will need to be 17.5 and will hold the bookshelf on its 3/4" thick bullnosed countertop. I want to find a nice trim to go underneath the bullnose, I really, really want to do the banding as shown in the last pic. Please tell me what molding that is.... In between, underneath the window, would be a window seat with frame molding on the front that would sit flush with the base cabs. This window seat would need to be 17.5 inches deep of usable space. Height of window seat is 17.5 inches. The window seat counter top will replace the existing stool. The window seat would need to be open so you could slide things into it, as shown in the attached example pic. The built-ins will be paint grade, white. I have attached a few photos showing the crown detail I would like at the top, an example of the cabinet bookshelf combo (I like the shaker doors just as in the picture and also the storage underneath the window seat), and my space in the room. 3/4" ply construction on the sides, top, bottom and back. 3/4" ply shelves with a true 2" wide (3/4 thick) band on the front. Face frame would be the same, true 2" wide (3/4 thick).

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Last edited by noone; 02-29-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:19 PM   #11
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


That will be a great first cabinet project---before you start,check the walls for plumb--they seldom are--so some scribing is required to keep the face frames square--

I would build the left and right cabinets first---then build the center one to fit---
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:39 PM   #12
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


Yep, that was my plan, build the cabinet bases first, paint and install, then build in the window seat and then finally the uppers.

I only have a cheap tablesaw that was given to me and I had just used for ripping wood flooring. The fence on this thing is absolutely horrible- you 'cam lock' it in and the thing is off by a 1/2 inch from end to end. Completely unusable. I have a Dewalt 364K circular saw on the way, so I'm hoping this will suffice as I'd rather not have to drop $600+ on a half decent ts. My worry with the circular saw is how to produce perfectly identical tops and bottoms and sides that you could do easily on a good ts with a decent fence. Any circular saw tips? I will at least make an 8 and 4 ft straight edge jig for the circular saw.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #13
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Various ongoing built-in construction questions.


That jig is your best hope----and it can be done successfully--just harder to do---

You may need to rig the old table saw fence so it will give you a good cut for the face frame cuts--

A clamp or two might be needed---I've worked with junk table saws in the past and you can do it--

Just be safe---use a pusher --be alert---Mike---
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #14
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That jig is your best hope----and it can be done successfully--just harder to do---

You may need to rig the old table saw fence so it will give you a good cut for the face frame cuts--

A clamp or two might be needed---I've worked with junk table saws in the past and you can do it--

Just be safe---use a pusher --be alert---Mike---
What kind and size thickness ply should I use for my jigs? How about my sawhorse work surface? A sheet of 3/4 MDF?
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:26 PM   #15
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3/4" MDF would be fine--stick a couple of 2x4s under it and add a few screws--a solid ,firm work table will help a lot.
.I make my straight edge jigs out of 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood strips--

I do have a good table saw and generate plenty of 'free' plywood strips--

There is a big old cast iron wood stove that loves all the drops and scraps from my shop--Mike--

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