Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Carpentry

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2014, 10:32 AM   #16
General Contractor
 
Gary Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: B.C. - Canada
Posts: 110
Share |
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Any joist that are notched need to be replaced or upgraded by adding a second joist to it.

Balloon framing is not as good as the normal platform framing, especially when your dealing with earthquakes.
That's one of the reasons virtually every framed home in North America is built using the platform framing method.

I would recommend upgrading the joint where the joist are attached to the vertical studs........one way is to nail a 2x8 or larger board ( called a ledger) onto the studs and supporting the joist.
Someone who knows what their doing really needs to look at this, an expert framing contractor would be your best choice........a building inspector may or may not have enough experience when dealing with something like this.

Oh......and thank god they don't build houses like they used to........but the lumber back then was better.

Gary Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gary Evans For This Useful Post:
dgfit (02-02-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 11:49 AM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Evans
Any joist that are notched need to be replaced or upgraded by adding a second joist to it. Balloon framing is not as good as the normal platform framing, especially when your dealing with earthquakes. That's one of the reasons virtually every framed home in North America is built using the platform framing method. I would recommend upgrading the joint where the joist are attached to the vertical studs........one way is to nail a 2x8 or larger board ( called a ledger) onto the studs and supporting the joist. Someone who knows what their doing really needs to look at this, an expert framing contractor would be your best choice........a building inspector may or may not have enough experience when dealing with something like this. Oh......and thank god they don't build houses like they used to........but the lumber back then was better.
Thank you Gary. I am replacing/sistering all the joists and am upgrading those joints but my plan has been to sister new studs under the new joists. I was planning to use 2x6 for the new studs since I need to fir out the wall anyway. I like the idea of using the ledger also. Don't see why I can't notch out the tops of the new studs and add the ledger also.

I am finding someone to do the roof work for the stack replacement, add bath exhaust vents and replace a window (basically anything with height ). I will also make sure that person has the experience and can advise on the framing.
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 12:44 PM   #18
General Contractor
 
Gary Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: B.C. - Canada
Posts: 110
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Sounds good dgfit

Good luck
Gary Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Here is what I have so far. The block on the right is filling in the void where it was hacked out. I didn't want to muck with the existing studs at all except to provide bracing. New joists will be installed on the plate above the new studs. Will also notch out the tops of the studs to install the suggested 2x8 ledger and then tie it into all of the studs and plates and provide additional support for the joists. Subfloor ok for framing inspection?-image-2605733308.jpg

Last edited by dgfit; 02-02-2014 at 03:57 PM.
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dgfit For This Useful Post:
gregzoll (02-02-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 04:33 PM   #20
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 13,880
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Are you going to use Simpson Hangers, to help strengthen the framing, along with ties at the base for further stiffening of the walls?
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 07:57 PM   #21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


You have platform framing- came in because of the sawmills/ease of assembly/shorter studs- but not without problems, pp.15; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGU&cad=rja - without the rim joist or bearing wall blocking- required per code- header/band/rim; they may require it on the joists to prevent overturning; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...002_par025.htm Did you put a straight-edge on the joist bottoms- is the centered doubled one a 1/2" low? They still MAY require blocking for them though may accept the "ledger" for the dis-continuous wall plates; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_6_par021.htm

The other ledger is a support for the joists above, code-required let-in rather than face-nailed (relying on strength of fasteners alone); http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par025.htm

Next to last diagram of balloon frame;http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_6_par013.htm

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gary in WA For This Useful Post:
dgfit (02-02-2014), gregzoll (02-03-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 08:30 PM   #22
General Contractor
 
Gary Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: B.C. - Canada
Posts: 110
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


I read that first article on different framing practices Gary.
It is interesting to see how it evolved but it doesn't apply in modern platform framing in Canada.
First......because of kiln dried lumber shrinkage is nearly non existent........it is not a problem today.

Second and more importantly before we erect the outside walls they are squared and fully sheeted.
Making every outside wall a sheer wall is vital to the structural integrity.

You often see homes being built on tv, movies......even in that article I just read.......you see it all the time, the frame of the walls being built with nothing covering it, just a few diagonal braces for rigidity.....you can see directly into the house with the walls up until the exterior covering/finish is installed.

This is not done in Canada, those outside walls have to be sheeted before framing inspection and the best way to do that is before the wall is stood up.
Then the exterior covering is installed over the plywood.
Platform framing.......like I described, is definitely superior to balloon type framing.

Last edited by Gary Evans; 02-02-2014 at 08:36 PM.
Gary Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 08:58 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in WA
You have platform framing- came in because of the sawmills/ease of assembly/shorter studs- but not without problems, pp.15; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGU&cad=rja - without the rim joist or bearing wall blocking- required per code- header/band/rim; they may require it on the joists to prevent overturning; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...002_par025.htm Did you put a straight-edge on the joist bottoms- is the centered doubled one a 1/2" low? They still MAY require blocking for them though may accept the "ledger" for the dis-continuous wall plates; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_6_par021.htm The other ledger is a support for the joists above, code-required let-in rather than face-nailed (relying on strength of fasteners alone); http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par025.htm Next to last diagram of balloon frame;http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_6_par013.htm Gary
Awesome information!! Thank you! I will add the blocking. I did put a straight edge on where the new joists will go (the ones you see are coming out). Fwiw, I have joists to replace on the other side of the foyer wall too but there are no issues with the studs on that side. Just here where on one side where the stack was on the right and a laundry chute on the left. I'm expecting to have to shim/plane to get the entire subfloor level.

Edit - will also be adding the fire blocking.

Last edited by dgfit; 02-02-2014 at 09:21 PM.
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dgfit For This Useful Post:
Gary in WA (02-02-2014), gregzoll (02-03-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 09:14 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
Are you going to use Simpson Hangers, to help strengthen the framing, along with ties at the base for further stiffening of the walls?
I don't think I can use the hangers but will add the blocking. The ties are a good idea - thanks.
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 10:27 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


FYI - I looked up the OH code - they do require the blocking and also indicates the ledger will work for supporting the joists. Also working out the details for the new stack.
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 11:47 AM   #26
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 13,880
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dgfit View Post
I don't think I can use the hangers but will add the blocking. The ties are a good idea - thanks.
You should be able to. Check with your local code office, or a General Contractor in your area, that has dealt with this kind of framing.

The Simpson's would definitely help in strengthing the floor joists, along where the old framing is tying into the new.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 05:17 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
You should be able to. Check with your local code office, or a General Contractor in your area, that has dealt with this kind of framing. The Simpson's would definitely help in strengthing the floor joists, along where the old framing is tying into the new.
Maybe there are hangers that can be used when resting the joist on the plate / ledger? I will research. The code makes reference to them when attaching to a rim joist but not in my application. But maybe I am missing something.
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 05:31 PM   #28
General Contractor
 
Gary Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: B.C. - Canada
Posts: 110
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Taking a second look at the pictures now, thanks for adding them dgfit........but it's still nothing like actually being there to inspect it.

There are a lot of things you need to know if you want to do this right.......to make sure the structure meets building code.
You know, there still so much that needs to be thought about that hasn't been......What about fire blocking for wall cavities 10' or higher.........it goes on and on what you need to know.
No handyman is gonna know this stuff.

Pasting website addresses and reading only goes so far without practical knowledge and experience.
And all that info on the internet is of limited use if you don't know how to apply it in the real world.

I try to give as much advice as I can but there are times when the homeowner needs to let professionals take over.
I'm thinking this might be one of them.

Last edited by Gary Evans; 02-03-2014 at 07:35 PM.
Gary Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 09:48 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 284
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


I have an advantage of living in a smaller city / county seat of 26,000 that also has awesome infrastructure and city services and I live about four blocks from the inspector's office. The inspector was kind enough to walk through it all.

The bottom line is that I now have four separate wall segments due to the plates being cut - the three in the pic plus the rest of the wall which is on the other side of the foyer wall. I need to tie all of those wall segments back together using metal strapping engineered for this purpose. But I still need to cut through the new plate for the new stack. Because the plate is only four inches, there isn't enough room to install a strap on the front side. But I can install a strap on the back side of the wall which is in my dining room (I already knocked some of the plaster off removing the cast iron stack).

I will also install the ledger as discussed which will provide even more rigidity to the wall as well as support for the joists. And for even MORE support, I will add strapping on both the front and back sides of the plate wherever possible.

But darn it - I still forgot to ask him about the subfloor, which was what started this whole thread
dgfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 12:01 PM   #30
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 13,880
Default

Subfloor ok for framing inspection?


Local metal shop can cut the plate & drill the holes, per Architect engineering plans. As for the Sub floor, you need to get the bones fixed first.

__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY Electrical work in New Jersey electures Electrical 42 12-19-2012 03:19 PM
Preparing for Inspection - I pulled the permit diy2morrow Electrical 4 08-17-2011 03:14 PM
Rough-in Inspection Shaotzu Electrical 4 03-31-2011 08:47 PM
Passed my rough inspection, now what? theatretch85 Electrical 12 05-03-2009 02:11 AM
Home Inspectors / Non Disclosed Issues PreSale AndrewF Off Topic 14 02-06-2009 10:18 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.