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amakarevic 01-06-2011 11:25 AM

shed roof framing
 
i have two questions regarding framing the roof on my 11x9 shed:

1. how do you nail a rafter to the center beam? it seems like it needs some support below it, like a propping stick or something, to keep it from sliding down once the nailer actuates impact.

2. is it necessary to nail or brace around the bird's mouth and into the top plate ? since toe nailing seems impractical given the weaker width of the 2x4 around the bird's mouth, i was thinking a right angle brace would be more suitable.

thanks

mrgins 01-06-2011 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 563994)
i have two questions regarding framing the roof on my 11x9 shed:

1. how do you nail a rafter to the center beam? it seems like it needs some support below it, like a propping stick or something, to keep it from sliding down once the nailer actuates impact.

2. is it necessary to nail or brace around the bird's mouth and into the top plate ? since toe nailing seems impractical given the weaker width of the 2x4 around the bird's mouth, i was thinking a right angle brace would be more suitable.
As far as nailing the ridge (I assume thats your "center beam"), I've framed roofs alone using regular spikes. If you have a helper, I don't see why the wood is slipping down. Nail thru the ridge into the end of the rafter, slide the opposing rafter into place and toe nail it thru the rafter OR the ridge with the appropriate length nail
thanks

Nailing thru the birds mouth is easy with a nail gun as it shoots to fast to split the wood. Depending on the width of the seat cut (the part that sits on the top of the plate) you can nail once on each side, two on one side and one on the other, or whatever it will accept. If you live in a high wind/tornado area, use rafter ties.

mrgins 01-06-2011 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 563994)
i have two questions regarding framing the roof on my 11x9 shed:

1. how do you nail a rafter to the center beam? it seems like it needs some support below it, like a propping stick or something, to keep it from sliding down once the nailer actuates impact.

2. is it necessary to nail or brace around the bird's mouth and into the top plate ? since toe nailing seems impractical given the weaker width of the 2x4 around the bird's mouth, i was thinking a right angle brace would be more suitable.

thanks

Nailing thru the birds mouth is easy with a nail gun as it shoots to fast to split the wood. Depending on the width of the seat cut (the part that sits on the top of the plate) you can nail once on each side, two on one side and one on the other, or whatever it will accept. If you live in a high wind/tornado area, use rafter ties.
As far as nailing the rafters to the ridge (i assume thats your "center beam"), I've framed roofs alone many times using hand nails. If you have a helper, I don't understand why it is slipping down. Nails thru the ridge into the end of the rafter, then slide the opposing rafter in line and toe nail thru the second rafter into the ridge, or thru the ridge into the rafter, using an appropriately sized nail.

amakarevic 01-06-2011 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgins (Post 564226)
Depending on the width of the seat cut (the part that sits on the top of the plate) you can nail once on each side, two on one side and one on the other, or whatever it will accept.

Why not then nail straight through the top vertical into the sole plate through the 2 side of the 2x4 rafter? Would that split the rafter, you think?

thanks :thumbsup:

mrgins 01-06-2011 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 564231)
Why not then nail straight through the top vertical into the sole plate through the 2 side of the 2x4 rafter? Would that split the rafter, you think?

thanks :thumbsup:

If you imagine a line going square from the upper edge of the rafter to the bottom edge, intersecting the corner of the birdsmouth, the depth of the birdsmouth should not exceed 1/3 of the thickness of the rafter. i.e. for a 2x10 (9 1/4") rafter, the birdsmouth should not be deeper than 3". This means you'd need a pretty long nail! Also, the direction that the nail would be aimed would not hold the way toenailing would

amakarevic 01-06-2011 05:41 PM

since it is a small shed (11x9), i am using only 2x4 and the roof pitch is about 17 deg, i am using a bird's mouth that is 4x1-3/8. so i could, i think reach through near the narrowest point of the rafter at the birds mouth with a 3" nail ... i think

Joe Carola 01-06-2011 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 563994)
i have two questions regarding framing the roof on my 11x9 shed:

1. how do you nail a rafter to the center beam? it seems like it needs some support below it, like a propping stick or something, to keep it from sliding down once the nailer actuates impact.

You toenail your rafter birdsmouth to the top platefront and back on both ends of the shed. The top of the rafters will butt into each other. Now you lift the ridge up in between the top of the rafters until the top of the ridge is flush with the top of the rafters. Now you toenail the rafters into the ridge. The ridge will always hold itself up after its nailed into the rafters.

Quote:

2. is it necessary to nail or brace around the bird's mouth and into the top plate ? since toe nailing seems impractical given the weaker width of the 2x4 around the bird's mouth, i was thinking a right angle brace would be more suitable.

thanks
If you're using ceiling joists you don't need anything but toenailing the rafter to the top plate and the ceiling joists. If you have no ceiling joists, you need hurricane ties nailed to the rafters and the top plates.

Have you cut the rafters yet? What is the span of the rafters, 11' or 9'?

mrgins 01-06-2011 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 564253)
since it is a small shed (11x9), i am using only 2x4 and the roof pitch is about 17 deg, i am using a bird's mouth that is 4x1-3/8. so i could, i think reach through near the narrowest point of the rafter at the birds mouth with a 3" nail ... i think

Before you do, think where the force of the roof is. It's going straight out at the point where the rafter tail hits the plate. If you drive a nail thru the shortest part of the birdsmouth, it will not be at an angle to resist that force...in fact it will not resist that force at all. Even if you nailed it thru the top, but straight down perpendicular to the top plate, it would not resist the force of wind pushing up against the overhang. Seriously, the best way is to toenail without overtoenailing. The nails cross over at right angles to each other as well as opposite the forces placed on the roof. Rafters ties are inexpensive and easy to attach if you doubt me!

amakarevic 01-07-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Carola (Post 564284)
What is the span of the rafters, 11' or 9'?

9' - thanks

Joe Carola 01-07-2011 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 564761)
9' - thanks

Are you using ceiling joists, and have you cut the rafters yet?

amakarevic 01-07-2011 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Carola (Post 564774)
Are you using ceiling joists, and have you cut the rafters yet?

Joe - both answers are no. Since it is a shed, i will have exposed roof or perhaps a euphemism would be a cathedral ceiling :) Was planning to cut the rafters later this evening.

Thanks

dtsman 01-07-2011 03:29 PM

Building a shed next weekend with a guy that is about the same size. Maybe this will help or give you some new ideas.

There will not be a ridge beam.
I will determine the rafters, create one, then use it for a patteren, and cut all the rest. They will be 2x6 and so should yours. They will butt together at the peak. We will nail the peaks together on the ground, then use a 2x4 cross piece about 2ft down from the peak to create a A frame truss. Set them on top of the walls hanging upside down and then flip them up. 2x4s will go through the hole of the A frame we created to hold the peaks on center.

2x4's no matter how short do not perform well for rafters or joist.

Bo

Remember,
If the women don't find you handsome,
they should at least find you handy.
(Red Green)

amakarevic 01-11-2011 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtsman (Post 564867)
2x4's no matter how short do not perform well for rafters or joist.

Thanks. So then should the center beam be a 2x8? I imagine it should be one size wider than the rafters.

CplDevilDog 01-11-2011 06:57 AM

It should be. However, I think dtsman is forgoing the ridge beam altogether and allowing the rafters to support each other

amakarevic 01-11-2011 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CplDevilDog (Post 567534)
It should be. However, I think dtsman is forgoing the ridge beam altogether and allowing the rafters to support each other

oh, so if i am using the ridge beam, is it enough if the beam is 2x6 and the rafters 2x4 ? again, the shed dimensions are 11x9 and the roof pitch is about 17.5 deg.


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