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Old 03-29-2017, 04:43 AM   #1
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Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


Im cutting out my old subfloor - warp / rotten. My joists run at 45 degrees to my bathroom. To provide edge support I'm going to glue and screw boxes to the joists. I think the shape I need to build is parallelograms. I think cutting the edge support piece and opposite piece at the appropriate 45 degree angles should suffice. The adjacent legs can be 90 degrees.

Got my cheapo table saw outfitted with an even worse miter gauge.

Any advice is appreciated. I'm as green as they get.

Thanks.






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Old 03-29-2017, 06:24 AM   #2
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


Seems fine, but bordering on over engineered.

Why not just cut some appropriately angled blockers for the joists and drop them in and nail them off?
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Old 03-29-2017, 06:34 AM   #3
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


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Seems fine, but bordering on over engineered.

Why not just cut some appropriately angled blockers for the joists and drop them in and nail them off?


By blockers do you mean a single piece of 2x4 between joists along the perimeter? I thought it would be hard to angle screw into the joists while keeping it flush with the joist.




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Old 03-29-2017, 06:38 AM   #4
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


I would use lumber that is the same dimension as the floor joists in this case so that the screws are not supporting the weight, but rather just keeping it aligned and in place.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:28 AM   #5
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


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I would use lumber that is the same dimension as the floor joists in this case so that the screws are not supporting the weight, but rather just keeping it aligned and in place.

Not 100% following why 3x12 lumber would be better but....

How would I hold up 3x12s, pilot the screws and then screw them into place?

I guess i can get clamps...

I'm doing this by myself.


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Old 03-29-2017, 07:34 AM   #6
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


First get a better blade for the saw. You want more number of teeth and good carbide tips. Included blades will chew up lumber and esp ply. For 10" blade I spend about $50 for general sawing. Throw away the square gauge and research and make own, but I never cut squares on my cheap table saw. Never use the fence trying to cut squares - good chance for kick backs and get yourself a cheap kick in the kidney.
For what you want to do, you are better off using a circular saw, and a square. Draw the line and follow the line. For 3/4" plywood/osb, you don't need the support for the edge. They are made to span 16", and even overhang a few inches. Example, roof is sheathed with 1/2" and it's walked on without anybody worrying if it's substandard. A bit different requirements but you see what I mean. Also you will be covering the edge with vanity, tub, etc. None of those fixtures need the support at the edge by the floor. They are mainly supported by the wall studs. You can cut square edge blocks and using an angle drill and predrilled holes, fix the blocks to the joists. Sure it looks like a hack job, but it suffices for the rough frame requirements. Use 3 or 4 3" deck screws. Don't over sink and split the edges. The blocks also don't have to line up right at the edge or even in a straight line.

You have a 45 deg corner, but if you cut the metal track flange, you can span the corner and make it into simple 90 deg corner.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:20 AM   #7
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


If you got a cheapo table saw, why not get a cheapo miter saw as well? You'd probably figure out you have more uses for it later on.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:25 AM   #8
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


I personally would never use an ordinary table saw for something other than ripping parallel cuts, other than maybe tapering table legs with a tapering jig or something where it's still pretty much with the grain.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:09 PM   #9
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


As mentioned earlier I think I'm over engineering this.

To provide edge support and get the floor closer to level I'm going to do some simple blocking. No parallelograms.

Grk 2 1/2" screws and some PL400 adhesive.




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Old 04-01-2017, 09:12 PM   #10
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


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If you got a cheapo table saw, why not get a cheapo miter saw as well? You'd probably figure out you have more uses for it later on.


Borrowed my friends sliding miter saw. So much easier.


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Old 04-02-2017, 07:20 PM   #11
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


"Any advice is appreciated. I'm as green as they get."------------- No, you were smart enough to question using full-depth blocking for major over-kill ;-) It is the saw angle, not the miter gauge angle... first time I ever heard of "blockers" also. I used to hire/fire for my construction companies and others. Just talking one-on-one in a short interview shows the amount of knowledge/experience they had. And the following short written test (if not dismissed for that position) using basic construction terms/procedures would narrow it down much further... no matter how much experience they said they had.. as Abe Lincoln said; "You can fool all of the people some of the time..." https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...lin110340.html

Add some blocks under the wall, if that is a bearing wall. And you need one split under both old/new plywood joints, add construction adhesive for squeak-free.
Add more floor cavity insulation if floors seem cold if a crawl space below.

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Old 04-02-2017, 08:02 PM   #12
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


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Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
"Any advice is appreciated. I'm as green as they get."------------- No, you were smart enough to question using full-depth blocking for major over-kill ;-) It is the saw angle, not the miter gauge angle... first time I ever heard of "blockers" also. I used to hire/fire for my construction companies and others. Just talking one-on-one in a short interview shows the amount of knowledge/experience they had. And the following short written test (if not dismissed for that position) using basic construction terms/procedures would narrow it down much further... no matter how much experience they said they had.. as Abe Lincoln said; "You can fool all of the people some of the time..." https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...lin110340.html

Add some blocks under the wall, if that is a bearing wall. And you need one split under both old/new plywood joints, add construction adhesive for squeak-free.
Add more floor cavity insulation if floors seem cold if a crawl space below.

Gary
Gary,

Have you every heard of the term "auto complete"?

Seeing as I have used the term "blocker" most often on my tablet or phone, it auto completes the text as I am typing it.

Apparently my attempt at helping the poster did not fall on deaf ears as he seems to have navigated his fix pretty well. Kudos to him and I am sorry to slightly hijack his thread slightly.

So what is interesting here is that you spend 30% of your effort helping him with his question and the remaining 70% trying to make me look stupid.

I have most regularly used the world "blocker" when talking to folks on here about how to insulate under joist cavities or talking about and "ad blocker" vs. talking about framing "blocking" of "blocks".

I guess I wouldn't be hired. Forget the fact that I happily work 80 hours a week and never complain, the fact that I might use a term incorrectly is clearly a better rationale to weigh someones worthiness. Seems a bit short sited but I realize it comes more from bitterness than anything.

Just think how many more folks you could help if you used the time that you so regularly invest trying to humiliate, albeit unsuccessfully, me and instead diverted that effort into helping folks out.

Food for thought my friend and I hope you have a good rest of the weekend.
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Old 04-07-2017, 07:26 AM   #13
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


When sistering 2x4s onto joists what's the appropriate screw depth into the joists. 1/2" or 1"? The studs are 1.5" so trying to decide between 2.5" vs 2" screws.


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Old 04-07-2017, 09:31 AM   #14
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


More is more. I wouldn't want only 0.5" of grab on the screw into the joist if it is me.

Given how thick that joist is, you would be well served by at least 1.5" grab if you ask me.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:06 PM   #15
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Re: Seeking tips on building parallelogram boxes to support new subfloor....


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Originally Posted by Windows on Wash View Post
More is more. I wouldn't want only 0.5" of grab on the screw into the joist if it is me.

Given how thick that joist is, you would be well served by at least 1.5" grab if you ask me.


I've heard you shouldn't put more than 1" into a joist when screwing subfloor to the joist. Sistering is on the vertical face of the joist so maybe there's a different rationale there.

Thanks


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